Episode 14

GUILT!! Business Owner, Parent, and Person. How do we do it all?

April 28th, 2021


**Warning this episode has a few swears**

In this episode, we speak with the fabulous Kat Jones and Jackie Noble from Rise and Thrive, and what an amazing conversation we had.

Being a parent, business owner, working part-time and finding time for self-care, we cover it all and how having a support network around you is a key factor in this journey we call life.

It is not all sparkles and unicorns, unless you ask my two-year-old…..

Every day we have the juggle between what we need to take care of ourselves and the needs of everyone else in our world. Sometimes it can be difficult to create the space for self-care, however, as Kat explained,

“It’s like, I’m in this big kind of cans full of my stuff. And I’ve got little taps around the outside, and I’ve got all these other buckets that I’m pouring into. And for me, my burnout is, all those buckets are full to overflowing because I’m so focused on those things. But I’m empty, and there’s absolutely nothing left in me. And I’ve got, you know, no motion left to give, and when I have run out, that’s when I’m at the point of burnout, because I’m done.”

The importance of Self Care is so much more important than you may think. Jackie shares with us an example of what happens when we deprive ourselves of the much-needed oxygen we need.

Remember “if the mothership goes down, that’s it, everything sinks with it, you can just see the kids start being angrier, everyone’s whining 50 million times more, you’re snapping everyone, you know, energy, like everything, just goes totally pear-shaped.”

Guilt is real and hard, however, the only way you can support yourself and continue to be the best version that you want to be is to lay that guilt at the door and schedule in that time for you.

Pop on your oxygen mask first.

Surround yourself with your village, your business family, your mother’s group – people who just get it completely judgement free. You deserve it.

If you are a mum you need these fabulous ladies in your life. So many amazing takeaways from this episode, my absolute moment of AHHUH, sometimes you just need to listen.

Enjoy the rest of your week creating space and time freedom.


Connect with our fabulous Speakers

Who is Rise & Thrive?

Rise & Thrive is a small business partnership between Katherine and Jacqueline. They have known each other for over 15 years and travelled different paths to succeed in their chosen fields. After both facing the challenges of motherhood and looking to expand their careers, they decided to combine their passion, skills and tenacity to make a positive impact in other people’s lives. Through facilitated online workshops, Rise & Thrive will help you reconnect with yourself and arm you with a toolkit of strategies to find compassion and confidence individually and in your role as a mother. As a result, the first workshop series, Finding You: I’m not just a mum! and business were born.

Website | Instagram

Katherine Jones and Jacqueline Noble | Rise & Thrive


Kat is a registered Teacher (primary, secondary and adult education), with a background in Media Arts. Most of her life has been dedicated to education in a variety of forms, with the majority of her being in the classroom for 11 years. She has two beautiful children and learned that motherhood itself is at times both overwhelmingly wonderful and, in contrast difficult.





Jackie is a Registered Psychologist who graduated from Swinburne University with a Master’s in Psychology. During her psychology studies, she became a mother to two beautiful busy boys. Admitting she couldn’t do it all herself and learning to ask and accept help took time. It was during those times, both personally and professionally she became interested in perinatal mental health.




Coming up on the 8th of May 2021 | Tame Your Mum Guilt – Free Online Workshop

Register for you spot and to download the Rise and Thrive Tools to Tame Mum Guilt here.


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Full Episode Transcription

Unknown Speaker 0:03
Welcome to take control with Nicole. As business owners, we experienced firsthand the fine line between our personal and business lives. During our conversations, we will look at simple hints and tips to create time, reduce, overwhelm, and help you to navigate through your journey to where you want to be. If you’re looking for smarter ways to work, and create space and time freedom in your day, then you’re in the right place. All right, let’s go.

Unknown Speaker 0:35
Hello, and thank you for joining me for this fabulous episode of take control with Nicole. Today I have the amazing Katherine Jones and Jacqueline noble here with me. And we are going to be exploring what is such a valuable topic for all parents that find businesses at the same time as fulfilling all of our duties as a parent as a person as an in a relationship, all of the things, which is guilt. But firstly, I would love to introduce you to our wonderful guests here today. So firstly, Kat. Kat is a registered teacher, primary, secondary and adult education with a background in media arts. Most of her life has been dedicated to education in a variety of forms, with the majority of her being in the classroom for 11 years on time. She has two beautiful children and learned that motherhood itself is at times both overwhelming. Wonderful, and in contrast difficult. Hi, cat How are you? Good. Nicole, how are you? Thank you. Yes, good. Very well. Thanks so much for coming. And now we have Jackie. Jackie is a registered psychologist who graduated from Swinburne University here in Melbourne with a master’s in psychology. During her psychology study, she became a mother to two beautiful busy boys admitting that sorry, meeting she couldn’t do it all herself. We’ve all been there and learning to ask and accept help took time. It was during those times both personally and professionally. She became interested in prenatal mental health. Is that how you say that Jacqueline, perinatal.

Unknown Speaker 2:18
I remember when I was having my kids and all these terminologies were coming through and I’m like, Yeah, okay, that sounds cool. What does that actually mean?

Unknown Speaker 2:29
Absolutely. The jargon, although we try we tried to reduce down that because that just makes it less accessible for people.

Unknown Speaker 2:37
Yeah, it sounds a bit pompous.

Unknown Speaker 2:42
I love it, though. It’s It’s so good. It’s all education, though, isn’t it, which I feel both of you are so passionate about is, is sharing that knowledge and making that accessible to us who may have never heard of that before, but really would benefit from understanding the meaning of it. So

Unknown Speaker 3:00
yeah, well, thank you so much both for for joining. I’m really excited to have you on board. We actually met in person for the first time a couple Oh, probably about a month ago, we were at the lady startups. Melbourne catch up in person catch up, which was fabulous. It was brilliant. And amazing.

Unknown Speaker 3:22
So much food.

Unknown Speaker 3:24
Sorry, goId. So yeah, when we were you obviously presented there and hosted some sessions for us. And when I learned about what you were all about, I’m like, I need you to come on my podcast here and share with my community. So thank you again. Oh, you’re very welcome. We’re excited to be here. Actually. Man, cat lover. Good chat. There we go.

Unknown Speaker 3:50
Love it. So why don’t we start with you telling us a little bit about your bars and your business? And you know, when did you decide that? You wanted to start to make it a reality for you? I’ll start the story, Jacqueline. So yeah, so Jackie, and I’ve known each other for like, what something ridiculous like 18 years or something crazy. So

Unknown Speaker 4:15
yeah, we’ve been best buddies. Long story short, I kind of she was my husband’s friend. But then I stole a stole her and made her my friend. So she’s my person now. And yeah, so we’ve been on this sort of crazy life journey together and you know, ride the ups and downs until we became parents. And we both had our firstborns both got two boys. Which is kind of crazy but also super cool because it’s you know, we compare stories and you know, just check in and we’re not the only ones who are moms of crazy boys.

Unknown Speaker 4:48
Yeah, and after my second year, so I’ve been in the classroom for quite a while now and Jackie had she was an A nurse, quite high up at the Alfred doing incredible, amazing things.

Unknown Speaker 5:00
And yeah, I was just putting the log in the classroom had my second child. And I was really unwell. So I ended up coming, being diagnosed with postnatal depression and anxiety. And it was a pretty rough time. But for me, it was, I was very, very lucky that I had both my husband and Jackie as probably the two rocks that anchored me during that time, because it’s pretty, pretty bloody rough. You know, one story stands out for me probably a moment. And Jackie remembers this is what we’ve talked about a number of times, sitting on the couch, at my house with you know, the other kids run around like crazy people. And I was probably you know, at the height of, of being unwell at that point in time, and I was feeding my youngest. And I said to her, I literally feel like all i exists to do in this world is just to keep this child alive. Like I serve no other purpose, I have no other value, I have nothing else to contribute. This is the only reason that I’m kind of alive right now.

Unknown Speaker 5:57
And that was that that stands out to me is that one moment sort of encapsulates everything. And Jackie, I don’t I can’t remember you saying anything, it just you just sat with me in that, at that point. Because what can you say to a person who’s going through that, like, you just have to be there for them. So we kind of rode through this. You know, insanity, and a few was probably the on the track after that. And I did, I did a lot of work to get well. And it’s a very, very long journey for people going through that. And that’s something that, you know, we’re both really passionate about discussing and

Unknown Speaker 6:32
talking about in a really realistic hands on way about how you can experience that and move through it. Yeah, it was probably you down the track. And we went on a kind of we tried to do an annual girls weekend away just to get a break. I was sitting outside at this, you know, awesome hotel, it was a beautiful sunny day was sitting rooftop by the pool, everything was great, had a drink in her hand. And we just got talking as Jackie and I do about

Unknown Speaker 6:58
our experiences where we come from what we’ve learned in motherhood, but then we started talking about the things that we found and not being

Unknown Speaker 7:07
being able to be accessed by parents and the difficulties and the things that that motherhood is not preparing you for and the services that aren’t really available. And we started thinking, well hang on a second here we have someone and Jackie was studying as to be a psych at that point in time as well. Then we just went well, between the two of us, we’ve got this incredible skill base. We both you know Jackie done lecturing at uni as well. So we both have teaching experience. And we thought well hang on a second, let’s let’s have a go with these, like, let’s put something together and work on something. And let’s see what we can do with the two of us to reach out to build a community and to start providing some educational programs for people that are based on research and evidence. But also in a real in a context that’s really heavily based in reality, because I think sometimes it gets some discussions with moms become so blown out with these idealistic kind of attitude. And were very much like no, no, no, we we know what the real life day to day grant grind is like, and that’s what we want to work with.

Unknown Speaker 8:09
And yeah, make it easy for people to actually do the working to get through it and feel supported and empowered at the end of it as well. Yeah, so that’s kind of where ryzen thrive was born, to do business, about two months to actually come up with our business. And that was probably the thing that the heart is Yeah, you know,

Unknown Speaker 8:28
oh, my God, it’s just the things you get bogged down in. He’s ridiculous. But yeah, so there you have it. That’s amazing. And, you know, I’ve got I’ve got two young children, five and two. So and I remember when I was pregnant with Sebastian, the story much stuff out there, you know, what you should do what you shouldn’t do, you know, look at this, read this, this is the person to follow that you shouldn’t follow it. And it’s all very much, you know, what, and how and where, and it ends up being. So having people that are just lucky guys, just this is how it is. And we’ll give you the information and guide you and support you through it. I think I know, for me finding my mother’s grave with Sebastian, and I’ve still got a core group of you know, three or four people that are we’re very, very close from that. And having that support really got us through all of those sometimes, you know, uncertainty times right at that start of motherhood. You don’t know what you don’t know. And yes, that’s right. flooring, and removing the judgment is yes. Yeah. Yeah, that’s a big one. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 9:39
Yeah, that’s awesome. And you both work part time still. So

Unknown Speaker 9:48
how did you

Unknown Speaker 9:50
feel about I guess, launching this into the world, when you we still had the commitments of, you know, your part time roles and

Unknown Speaker 10:00
All the other stuff that comes with your family person? Yeah, absolutely. I think we had great high hopes as everybody does when they first start a business. And we hoped it would have gone one way. But I think what reality shows you is that

Unknown Speaker 10:17
you have to take it at the pace you can take it. And and reality was we both had to continue our part time jobs to keep our lives going to keep a roof over our heads to feed our children and all those things. And so then we had to adjust the expectation, what can we actually expect from ourselves and our business if we only have a limited amount of time that we can put into it. And I think I would say probably the first 12 to 18 months was a lot of that going back to each other and saying, gosh, we’re frustrated that we can’t do x y, Zed, and accepting that we can’t, the business can’t grow in the way that we had perhaps hoped it could in the beginning. But I guess at the end of the day, we’ve learned that it is a bit of a marathon, it’s not a sprint, it is a marathon and we are committed to this. in whatever form it kind of morphs into and takes off, we are committed to it because we are so passionate about the topic. And mums aren’t going anywhere. So we figure we’ve got time, although we feel the urgency, and I think this is probably true for both of us in the beginning. We feel that real urgency, this, this message needs to be out there, this information is out there, every single parent needs to know about this, at the same time holding both things. We’ve got time. It’s okay, we’ve got time. And to anchor in that and say, Okay, what can we actually do today? What time do I have? What I’m juggling all the things? What can I do and that has to be enough, it has to be enough. And I think that’s probably been the great thing about having two people in a business is that with sometimes we’re one of us is completely snowed under or seek or all the things on the link.

Unknown Speaker 12:03
I don’t know who that was.

Unknown Speaker 12:06
Yes, we’ll come on delete the other ones there just to step in a problem prop up. And I think that’s just been the best To be honest, I think if I had gone into this solo, I would not still be doing it, I would have given up probably more than 12 months ago, because I would have been like, you know what, this is too hard. We don’t know, we’re just saying that, before we pressed record that It’s so lovely to have two of you together and a business and that because you’re both so passionate about it. And you’re obviously it’s it’s so evident the support that you give each other even just for meeting you, you know, at the events, you could just say it when you’re standing in the same room. And virtually you can see it here too. But it’s so lovely to have that especially when you do sit, we do launch your business, you know, a lot of my listeners here are solopreneurs or, you know, they’re launching, and they’re scaling their businesses. And I know for me as a solopreneur, finding my people to help me get through those difficult, you know, times was so key for me right at the start. So it’s so lovely that you’ve already got that in built

Unknown Speaker 13:15
with the tour of you. So it’s fun. Yeah, and it should be fun, right? Like, what life’s needs to be fun. We need to enjoy what we’re doing every day. You know, it’s it’s so, so important. So you did it, you need that perspective, too. Sometimes I think, you know, for you, obviously, you found some connections within the bills business model as well that you can, you know, bounce ideas off.

Unknown Speaker 13:40
So I think we’re just lucky that we’ve got that for both the business side of things, but also the ideas we will take things. And then personally like, you know, COVID hit, and Armand was out for a walk, you know, we’re locked down completely and ringing Jackie and just walking in in tears and being like, this is just crushed all our plans that we had laid for philosophy we had face to face sessions booked. We had venues booked. And it just crushed it all and it just literally felt like that’s it, we’re done. And to have that other person on the phone be like no, no, no, just stop. We are going to get through this was you know, it was amazing. And we try to do that for each other when we have those moments, you know, those, you know, personal crisis moments of what are we doing? Is this working what’s happening here and just boost the other person up? Even if you’re feeling it yourself, you still jumping in your life? You know? Because that’s what you do with as friends as colleagues, you know, you don’t just sit there and go, let’s eat with

Unknown Speaker 14:34
and let’s just sink into the hole of despair. You have to say no, no, we can do this. Even if it’s in your head, you’re going this is such a bullshit and I’m not making this up and I’m lying through my teeth, you just have to keep going, you know, pull the other person back up. And then in two weeks time you have your meltdown and they pull you up as well. So you can see, you know, I know I’m surrounded by so many fabulous people in business and I just look at them and I think they’re amazing, but you know, there are moments that I know for

Unknown Speaker 15:00
Me I have those like, Oh, what is going on? Like, this is crazy, like, and then I reach out to my people and they’re like, look at what you’ve achieved. Look at what’s happening, you’ll fabulous, like, give yourself some space and Lalalala. And then I’ll do that, like, even last night, I went out with some friends and came back and I just felt light and fun and ready again to start today. So yeah, that’s, that’s so cool. It’s so such such a lovely thing to have within your business, you don’t even have to go out to ratify that you’ve got it. They’re just so cool. So you were talking about the sort of balance between the two and and how you look at your priorities and all of that. Is there anything? So we’re obviously talking about guilt here? That comes into it as well? Because you’ve obviously got your part time roles, you’ve got your business? And then you’ve still got all the other stuff? You fight? How How is that? Just a question? How do you find that advice? to help other moms get through that? or other parents get through that to where they need to be? Even a quiz? I feel like yeah, it’s I get what you’re saying, though? How do you actually make it all work? And can I, you know, obviously, we do teach facilitate these groups, we actually do also practice the same strategies. We’re not these different people. We’re not not human at the end of the day where people first and so we have the same self doubts. We have the same self blame, self criticism, mom guilt, we have all of that as well, that goes on for us too. And I think a big part of it is like that actually having each other obviously is really helpful. But it is taking that moment to pause and say, okay, what’s actually going on for me right now, I’m feeling a lot of self doubt, I’m feeling a little anxiousness. I’m feeling a bit uncertain about where this is going. I’m not feeling like I’m doing what I can, or I’m not being the best version of me. And I guess, because we do have that ability to bounce off each other. If you need to sit like your cat needs to take time for her family. Like, we both understand that for each other. And I think the biggest thing is actually someone else giving you that permission. I’ll be honest, I reckon it’s the other person saying it’s actually okay that you’re struggling with this. It is actually okay. And if you take your moment, and you look after yourself, I’m here. I’m still here. Yeah. And then we’ll move on together. And I think,

Unknown Speaker 17:34
obviously, you try to build that within yourself as well. But having having that other person that you can bounce it off to, I get it is it’s giving you permission to say, it’s okay. Okay, that you’re struggling, we’ll get there. It’s interesting, you say that as well, because I talk about giving yourself permission to do X, Y Zed all the time, you know, and actually, even yesterday, I was speaking to someone and

Unknown Speaker 17:58
she was we’re actually actually talking exactly about this, you know, she’d been, she’s got two beautiful girls, and she’d been working all weekend because she had these things to do. And, you know, she came to yesterday, and she was feeling you know, guilty. And she’s like, I must have next weekend off and, and I said, Look, you are where you are, we’re here now. Just absorbed that you know where you’re headed. And that’s okay. Like, you know, you needed to do those things. And you just got to just let yourself be there and find what it’s going to help you to move through that. Because really, it isn’t about when you reach out to someone, you don’t actually want a solution, I think no time. And people go into that help mode, where really, it’s like, I’m here I’m listening. And when you’re in physical touch, I am here

Unknown Speaker 18:51
holding hands like Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 18:55
And I think some of us feel more comfortable in the space of sitting and being with Yeah, and I think that’s also a skill that you can learn. whereas others of us feel way more comfortable in the doing mode in that problem solving mode, because it’s an it doesn’t come from a place of trying to dismiss or anything like that it actually comes from a place of I want to help you. I can see you are so distressed and this problem is really bogging you down. If only I could help you, then you’d be okay. And I think so I never think that people I know sometimes it can feel very invalidating when people do try to problem solve your problem for you. But I always try to think of it as it’s come from a good place. They don’t want to see me upset because they care about me. But and that’s where your I guess your you know, your boundaries and that sort of things comes in because sometimes you have to actually say the person I just sit with me or can we just have a cup of tea and chat? Yeah, that’s what I need and that and that’s you there being for me and that’s enough.

Unknown Speaker 19:55
But again, that’s knowing yourself and knowing what do I need emotionally, what do I need?

Unknown Speaker 20:00
Is it? Do I need a hug? Do I just need someone to give me a hug? And I think, especially during the COVID, that’s the one thing that you like we missed being in the presence of other people and how soothing that can be.

Unknown Speaker 20:13
I caught up with my mother’s group only last week, and we hadn’t seen each other for well over 12 months, obviously. And all of us had the same like hesitation before the dinner, I don’t really want to go, it’s raining a coffee bothered. And my husband said to me, he goes, you need to get out the door, go. As soon as you get there, you’ll be fine. And it’s so true. And all of us are saying that buzz you get after you’ve been and chatted. And and that’s because that’s soothing, right? That’s feeling good. This is like, I can do this. Yes, this has been a really awful year. But we’re all still here. And we’ve all come back together again. And then you bounce off that the next day, if that makes sense. Yeah. So I’m not sure where I was going with.

Unknown Speaker 21:00
Yeah, it’s the dumping ground to suppose when you get together with people, and I find too now when I get together with, you know, Kingdom moms or school moms or friends or whatever, the first sort of half an hour is spent just bitching about our kids, you know, because chances are somebody just walked in, in a tease from some tantrum that’s happened. And you just walk in and you go, you know, Freddie was being a sheet this morning, and blah, blah. And I had to do this, and I’ve cracked the sheets. And he’s, you know, how many times have to say, put your butt damn shoes on? And it just becomes and you get it out? And everyone goes, Yeah, me too. So all of a sudden, you’ve got this. It’s not just me. Yeah, the values validating Yeah. And, you know, I’m not the only crazy mom and blah, blah, and everyone’s going through it. And all they know, there’s nothing wrong with my children, either. They’re everyone’s perfectly normal. And you don’t have to, you sort of dump off some of that guilt. It’s like you carried on your shoulders as little boulders. But when you get together with your people, you just take the foot down. Yeah, and you but you don’t put them on someone else, you’re just you’re all kind of storing them into a communal heap. And then saying, we’re done with that, you’re gonna have a wall, and we’re gonna talk about the fun stuff, while the kids are all off having fun as well. So it’s good. And that reminds us about how much you really, we talked about this village all the time, we really do need that village. But we also have the onus on us to go out and find those people for ourselves. And don’t necessarily think that the people who are a part of your maybe your friendship group are going to be your business support, because I might think whatever you’re doing is ridiculous. So you’ve got to then find another group and other village to suit the need, that you’ve got across the board. That is and have self compassion in how you’re doing and how you’re living. And, and allow yourself to, you know, if there are people in your space, be that mother being a parent space, business, space, personal space, that aren’t serving you anymore, that are causing me more pain than anything being okay to go, gee, you know, what, thank you so much for our time together up until this point, but we’re not supporting or serving each other right now. So I let you go with love. And one day, if we come back together, that’s fabulous. But at this point, I need to focus in on me.

Unknown Speaker 23:08
And I know, I’ve that’s a really hard thing that I’ve had to do a few times and especially for me moving into the business space, you are absolutely right. You know, even your family as much as they support you. They don’t get it. They

Unknown Speaker 23:24
and and that’s okay, because I found my business family who do get it. And they celebrate with me every little step of the way. And they you know, they just are there for me to hear and be present and not try and problem solve some do. But that’s fine, because I probably problems off their stuff, too. Can’t help it. I’m a problem solver.

Unknown Speaker 23:46
But it’s so good. And that village, you know, cat I know when I had the kids that was that my my group there was sorry, Katie that Sorry. Sorry. Okay.

Unknown Speaker 23:58
Yeah, 100% agree 100%. My mother’s group were still amazing. But it was definitely the people I needed to meet at the time that I met them. And now, you know, seven years on, we’ve all got like, sort of seconds and thirds and all that kind of stuff. And yes, the meetings are not as frequent as they used to be. But the love and the care is absolutely palpable when we do come together, and it is that judgment free, like tell me I want to know what is actually happening for you as a mom like me and what where is it hard. And then same as me, I want to tell you, Hello, I’m struggling, because that’s an important part as well that I don’t feel like I’ve just got this facade up because I think this is the other thing in all the different little hats that we have that we have. You you do like to maintain an air presence of competence, that you know what you’re doing, and that’s absolutely necessary, particularly in a business role. You you you want to come across that you know you’re doing but there are genuine times, particularly as a mom as a mommy business.

Unknown Speaker 25:00
That you feel like, I don’t have this, I don’t have this anywhere near as what I thought I did. And I need to tell someone, I just need them. I just need that to be out there in the universe. Because perhaps someone else might be able to have that shared experience. And we know that, again with the COVID. Like, what feels loneliness, what feels disconnection is not being able to be authentic is not being able to tell your authentically what is going on for you. Because there’s then this distress of this picture, perfect life I’ve got, and what is actually happening for me on the inside. And because we got one step removed in COVID, and we all went online, again, it’s very curated, you see what people want you to see. And so when you’re thinking, or I’m actually really struggling with the idea of doing home schooling, and home working, and all these things, but people are posting these photos lounging about with their laptop, like it’s amazing. And I’m like, that is so not my reality. Like, is there something wrong with me? Whereas when you can connect with someone, and they go, Yeah, actually, no, that’s what it’s like for me to then it’s this immediate, this kind of Sue’s this calm. Ah, thank goodness, thank goodness. But if you’re not able to have that genuine, authentic connection with someone, you are left feeling like it’s only me, and then your loneliness and disconnection grows, which never ends well. No, that’s so so true. You know, through last year, I did missing people in person like this. I when I connect with people I actually want to know, not that. Hi, how are you doing? It’s like, how you doing? Like the deep

Unknown Speaker 26:42
real stuff? You know, because when you do come in with that genuine connection and care and interest, those relationships just form and they create an a different way. And it’s it’s much stronger. And it’s more it’s just more. One word more. Yeah. And it’s so important to find those people that are everyone doesn’t have to be that person. But no, you need to have your core group. All there is so

Unknown Speaker 27:15

Unknown Speaker 27:17
Sorry. COVID. working part time, kids business, all the things. How do you find or have you reached burnout or have you?

Unknown Speaker 27:35

Unknown Speaker 27:38
yes. In a way, in a word. Yes. Multiple times. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. burnouts is a huge thing. And it’s also becoming a bit of a buzzword at the moment, too. So I think we do need to be mindful about the context that people putting around it. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 27:55
Because you can apply it in different settings. And there certainly, it seems to be that there are certain personality types, and certain professions that are having higher incidences of burnout. Nurses, teachers are definitely high up there.

Unknown Speaker 28:11
Lately, but yeah, I, for me, personally, I think I experienced burnout when

Unknown Speaker 28:18
I feel like

Unknown Speaker 28:21
he’s a metaphor for you.

Unknown Speaker 28:23
It’s like, I’m one this big kind of cans full of full of my stuff. And I’ve got my little taps around the outside, and I’ve got all these other buckets that I’m pouring into. And for me, my burnout is, all those buckets are full to overflowing because I’m so focused on those things. But I’m empty, and there’s absolutely nothing left in me. And I’ve got, you know, no motion left to give, I’ve got no, you know, we’ve just turned this into the IRA version, you only have so many fucks to give. And when I have run out of them, that’s when I’m at the point of burnout, because I’m done. Yeah. And for me, I’m I am a person who I feel things very heavily and that’s for me, my whole life, I have that streak of empathy. I can actually feel to my core, how other people feeling I notice when people are happy, sad, distressed, and I feel it, I take it in on onto myself as well. At the same time, I’m a very emotional person myself. So I feel my own things quite strongly. So burnout for me is really heavily linked to what’s going on circumstance. And it’s also linked to how much emotion has been sucked out of me as well. So I have to learn to identify that because that’s also something that didn’t help me when I was unwell. It was something that, you know, and I can I have the tendency to sort of sink back into those holes at times. So for me as a person, I have to recognize that and it’s something I have to work on. I’ve got to actively put measures in place to compensate for when I’m feeling like that. And it goes to every aspect of my life, my home life, my work life, my friends, my family, my friends.

Unknown Speaker 30:00
Everything I need to know when to stop. When to do things like detox from social media as an example, just go right you actually 24 hours, we’re not on your phone, and you’re not posting, you’re not interacting, you’re not sending emails you switched off. I am a person who needs time to get out into nature as well. Like, you know, I’ve just come off a weekend, that was a total, one of those unicorn weekends, we get that last week invited, come on, let’s go to the country. And my phone has literally no reception at the place we stay. And it was just, I needed that for my soul. Like I needed that to reconnect to myself to clear my head to get some energy back. So you’ve got to build, but you have to build those things in as well. Like you actually need to sit down with your schedule and your your timetable and go right? When is this going to happen, because if I don’t lock in that weekend, or that catch up with friends, or whatever, it’s just gonna fly by or something come up and or you’ll get distracted or, you know, there’s always the thing that pops up. So you have to make that commitment of I’m going to do that. And generally, if you do that with a friend, or you make that commitment with a friend, then you’ve got that like, well, such and such as going and I’m committed to them. So I have to go because otherwise I’m letting the team down. Yeah. So really important to do that really important to

Unknown Speaker 31:16
find what works for you, whether it’s exercise, or you know, meals out with friends or quiet time on your own. It might be light, a candle, read a book, whatever it is, and we link it really and we talk about this all the time in our workshops, linking those things back to self care, and making sure that you’re doing the work for yourself, because no one is going to look after you the way that you can look after yourself. You know, if the mothership goes down, that’s it, everything syncs with it, and you see it, you know, you can just see the kids start being more angry, everyone’s winning 50 million times more, you’re snapping everyone, you know, energy, like everything just goes totally pear shaped. Yeah. So you got to lift, you got to lift yourself out, you got to pull yourself out of that. I absolutely talk about this all the time. Well, first thing I also say is, if it’s not in the diary, it won’t happen. But that’s a rule in our house that has been for years, we’ve got a joint calendar, and then everything goes in there. And if it’s not in there, then that’s not happening. But I talk about when I do a process my clients call designing your day. And we actually have a look at where and how what they’re doing. And the first thing I say to them is what are those personal activities that you need to do each and every day are varying. And they’re the things are going there first, like all the other stuffs important, but this is actually more important, because if you don’t give yourself oxygen, then you can’t continue to be the fabulous person you want to be because you’ll deflate yourself. So yeah, I love that in the team with the taps that’s gonna remember that.

Unknown Speaker 32:51
But yeah, so, so important. And then I also have that image of like one of your kids coming on and just turning a tap of

Unknown Speaker 33:00
getting all the water out. Fun Time.

Unknown Speaker 33:05
On the bathroom tab, she’s obsessed with the bathroom tabs. So like you’ve got if it goes quiet, like where’s Charlotte? In the bath? She’s flying the car four times. Yeah. Fun. All the joy.

Unknown Speaker 33:20
Jackie talks about a nice analogy to do with the oxygen mask. Yeah. Which is more of the theoretical background. Jackie, Johnny.

Unknown Speaker 33:27
I’d love that. I mentioned that one. Do I? What do I say?

Unknown Speaker 33:34
You put your sock hat.

Unknown Speaker 33:37

Unknown Speaker 33:39
It’s that putting the oxygen mask on for yourself first. This is a beautiful example of how you to work together well.

Unknown Speaker 33:49
under the bus.

Unknown Speaker 33:54
I’ve no idea what you’re talking about.

Unknown Speaker 33:58
Totally, no. In all seriousness, in all seriousness, though, absolutely. I actually when I was doing nursing, I learned about this that what happens to your brain when you don’t get oxygen and essentially how you go crazy use it’s like it’s a really awful, slow,

Unknown Speaker 34:17
awful, awful death. And your brain you just lose reality, you lose contact with reality, you lose the ability to think to concentrate to do anything.

Unknown Speaker 34:29
And I feel like this is the analogy that applies to life but particularly life with children. Because if you have taken your oxygen mask off and are slowly slowly, slowly depleting yourself of oxygen, you are literally going to lose your marbles and then who is there for your children.

Unknown Speaker 34:49
There’s only so much that they can do on their own given their age stage development. So they need you. They need you more than you think they need you even as they grow up. So

Unknown Speaker 35:00
If you can learn the strategies and the skills to put your oxygen mask on first not have the guilt around that, and actually put it on, you have role modeling for your children, you are saying to them, it’s actually really important that we look after ourselves. And this is how mom does it.

Unknown Speaker 35:17
And it can be some things are very,

Unknown Speaker 35:20
like obvious and other things are really not as obvious. So like, for example,

Unknown Speaker 35:26
fall off and crack it like we all do with our kids. I get to a point, quite sad. And my eldest will say to me, Mom, I think he might be hungry.

Unknown Speaker 35:37
And I kind of stopped me in my tracks and I go, Wait, I you are bang on. I actually haven’t eaten this morning, I’ve been making the breakfast for everyone else I’ve been putting out all the lunchboxes aside, and making all that affect the dog have fed the cat have cleaned up the cap.

Unknown Speaker 35:57
I’ve done all the things and I’ve done them all. And I’ve like I could tick all those boxes and be like, amazing, but I actually did not think to feel myself and I’m now the result of that is I am Krabby Patty Krabby Patty, I’m so hangry.

Unknown Speaker 36:11
And unfortunately, my kids didn’t get like the reflection of that. But what I’ve tried to do with them over time is explained to them. This is actually mom’s problem, I’m angry now because I’m hungry. And how I’m going to look at myself is I’m just going to I can’t come play now mom’s gonna have something to eat, and then I’ll join you. But I also you got to follow through with that. And you actually have to go join them. But what it does is build emotional literacy for both of us. It says me, this is what I need for me. And then they can see this is what mom needs for mom. And that’s not my fault. Nor is it my responsibility. Yeah, my kids don’t have to make me feel better about my anger. And they also don’t need to soothe me and they don’t need to feed me. But they can also hold that mirror up and say Mom, are you looking after yourself?

Unknown Speaker 36:58
here’s here’s a sneaky

Unknown Speaker 37:01
feed mom treats feed mom treats.

Unknown Speaker 37:04
keep her calm.

Unknown Speaker 37:09
Yeah, yep. That’s amazing, though. And it’s really interesting what you said about how the body actually react when you don’t have oxygen in your brain. Because that’s exactly what happens when you don’t look after yourself. Like you’re obviously still getting oxygen, but you’re not feeding yourself what you need literally sometimes, but you’re not feeding yourself what you need. I know, from very early on with my kids, I every fortnight I would go out and get my nails done. Because that was my thing that made me feel like a human. You know, and that was just my thing. You know, some other people go and sit down and read a book or have a hot cup of coffee. That’s a good one a hot to cover.

Unknown Speaker 37:53
But yeah, I know that a lot of my friends, especially when they’re just having newborns, like in their first time. And I always really encourage them to make that time for themselves. Because you feel like you have to be everything, when we can’t if we’re not looking after ourselves. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 38:14
But it is about finding. It’s not all or nothing. I think this is sometimes the The unfortunate thing about social media and those messages that we get given. Self Care is not selfish. But self care is about saying what’s my needs? What’s your needs? And how do we make it all work and sometimes, it’s not going to work for you. And sometimes it’s not gonna work for kids. It’s a it’s

Unknown Speaker 38:41
it’s a fluid process. We don’t nail it every day. We absolutely don’t nail it every day. But we it’s a work in progress. Yeah, so some days you’re gonna hit the nail on the head, you’re gonna get it and it’s gonna work and everyone’s cool. Other days you’re not and that can be for various reasons you might want to keep might be sick, you might have slept, like all the things can happen. And then you just feel like I’m so depleted. Now. It was never your intention to get that way. Because I think this is another perhaps

Unknown Speaker 39:09
message that kind of gets out there on those social platforms is that

Unknown Speaker 39:15
you’re to blame for where you’re at. Yeah, yeah. And blame, blame, shame and criticism, are the most de motivating emotions that we can have, especially for ourselves. So if you read something on social media, the Oh yes, this self care, I’m so responsible for that. That’s why I’m so terribly unhappy. And now I’m stuck in this and this is all my fault, you’re less likely to reach out.

Unknown Speaker 39:40
As opposed to if you look at it and go, I’m so depleted but I literally have no help. I have no help. And I’m looking after twins and a toddler and it’s all happening.

Unknown Speaker 39:52
I need to reach out I need to reach out I need to find my people I need to find this is not working the way it is. It is not a deficit of me.



Acknowledgement of Country

We acknowledge the Traditional Owners of the land on which we work and live. We pay our respects to Elders past, present and emerging. We celebrate the stories, culture and traditions of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Elders of all communities who also work and live on this land.