Episode 53

Curious Client-ing with Kathy Rast

February 16th, 2022

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Today I'm chatting with the fabulous Kathy Rast and we are going to be introducing the concept of Client-ing.
We dive into:
  • The power of words
  • Shaping our experience through what we say to ourselves
  • Undercharging services
  • How clients play their role, and how you play yours
  • Lightening the conversation of business-ing
  • Staying in your zone of expertise

Connect with our fabulous guest

About Kathy
Kathy Rast is back and talking language-ing again. If you're new to Kathy, she's a Linguistiologist who works with businesses to take what they have and what they naturally do (mostly out of their awareness) and show them ways to leverage what comes easy to them. Once revealed, she helps them with forward-facing words, and then the old feels new, the new is old already, and it just seems to work in the most obvious way that wasn't real until it was.
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Listen to Kathy's 'C Word' Podcast Episode

 

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Full Episode Transcription

Nicole Smith
Welcome to Take Control with Nicole. As business owners, we experienced firsthand the fine line between our personal and business lives. During our conversations, we will look at simple hints and tips to create time, reduce overwhelm, and help you to navigate through your journey to where you want to be. If you're looking for smarter ways to work, and create space and time freedom in your day, then you're in the right place. All right, let's go.

Nicole Smith
Hello, hello, and welcome back to Take Control with Nicole. Today I have the fabulous Kathy Rast joining me and we are going to be introducing the concept of client-ing. Now you may have already heard me mention Kathy, a number of times throughout different episodes in the podcast, but I shall introduce her again to you today. So Kathy Rast is a linguistiologist. Kathy works with businesses to take what they have and what they naturally do, mostly out of their awareness and show them ways to leverage what comes easy to them. Once revealed, she helps them with forward facing words. And then the old feels new. The new is old already. And it just seems to work in the most obvious ways that wasn't real until it was. She lives and breathes words things so businesses can live and breathe business things. Well, that's a mouthful. Welcome, Kathy.

Kathy Rast
I thought I'd give you a, turn my video off so that you can have a breath and stop laughing. Never stop laughing laugh laugh, laugh laugh. I love your phone voice. I love how like now you're going you do that beautiful. And then you're like, what up?

Nicole Smith
So true, I was always in our family, the one that would record the voicemail. You know? Hi, you've reached the Gordon's home.

Kathy Rast
Really I hadn't. That's not the inner performer is it. Or the outter performer.

Nicole Smith
And I'm on

Kathy Rast
Ohh you're poor listeners are probably like, what is going on?

Nicole Smith
This is how Kathy and I communicate on the daily. And I'm so excited to have you here again, because I love our conversations. And yeah,

Kathy Rast
They're different, aren't they? Well not different. They're just something in it of themselves. Yeah. The way that we talk, you don't realise it's a thing and how enjoyable pretty much everything in the human experience can actually be in the most wonderful conversation and it's never uncomfortable. It's just, and it's never brutal, as in honest, it's brutal. Really? No, it's just, yeah, when you find that way of how can we categorise our conversation, our conversations are a way of we are, we know that we're talking to ourselves, but we know that it's being witnessed. And so we really know who's who. And this aligns with the concept of client-ing we know where we stand, and where we what's not ours in the conversation. And so we know how to play our roles. And most of the time, it's either just talking shit, or it's talking really serious shit. And it's about, I feel naughty swearing on your podcast, it's totally different to my podcast, which obviously I just did an episode on the C bomb because I love it.

Nicole Smith
That was a fabulous episode, we're actually going to put the link in the show notes because it was a, I reached out to you afterwards. And I it was, as we know, I'm not a swearer. But I do appreciate the way that the viewing the lens that you have with the different words that are out there in the world. And that episode in particular was a great example of a way that it was always associated. And now looking at it from a different way. It feels a lot lighter.

Kathy Rast
Yeah, because you've loosened that that tough grit. It's fixed. And it's I love it because I'm not the only one having that conversation. And I love swearing for a number of reasons just because there's something in these words that feel good to involuntary say in that initial reaction. And also, I can tell who are my people. Straight away. You don't like you, you don't have to swear. But if you understand the role of the lightness and the purpose of swearing and how it comes in, then you may be my people. You don't get an automatic pass to my island. And if you're really fixated on no, it can't be, it has to be, then it's like, I'm going to come across as a continual threat. Because I don't hold things that tightly. Yeah. And I can't and it eats away at my soul, if I do that, just as it's going to grate away and not give you that wonderful energy to glow. So I want you to feel safe. So that's cool. We're both amazing humans. How about you go left and I'll go right? See ya, and so it's wonderful. It's a wonderful understanding that in my world that swearing holds a specific purpose. It allows me to put grammar into the spoken word, really clearly, it allows me to bold or italicise something or to really put that exclamation mark on something. Usually, it's with passion, it is never a safety thing. It's never said in anger. The only time that I would say in anger is that involuntary. It's not even anger, it's more shock. And it's toward myself, it's never towards someone else. And so I definitely think it's a great group of words, to start a conversation on being aware of everyday understanding of stories that lay under our language. And so the C bomb is, is the bomb. I love it. And we had that conscious conversation in our home where we took it from. I was one of those people that said, no, no, no, you can't say that's the rudest way that you could possibly say it's the most offensive word possibly I was in that camp. And I think it was that word and that conversation, and then the experience that follow that really did take it into my integrating that understanding going. Yeah, that was one way. And that's how strong that can feel. And I feel stronger the other way. And that was a totally different truth to what I used to hold. And having that contrast is always a great thing to bring up. When I've got a truth I'm holding on to too tightly. So then I can go wait, wait, wait. Oh, okay. This is my new c bomb. And it might even be just a very benign word. So there was one word that used to be a swear word to me. And it was special in the time because when I used to work in the bank, one of my first jobs, I worked as a teller in a bank, and this person, it was just the way they spoken. I would walk in and go woman give me my money. He wasn't, it was his account and everything, by the way. But it was a small country town, but that's how he spoke. Thanks, woman. And but I just heard that tone which of course has generations of stories in it. So even now, when my husband's being a tool, he will say it in that tone. And then we'll just giggle now because I hold it lightly as you say we hold things that and we know that there's another story so yes, swear words and the C bomb and I saw a post that Lad Bible, carrying the conversation because it did stem from the most beautiful series. I recommend everybody, I wish everybody would process emotions like Ricky Gervais. Not exactly but in the same sentiment in taking the time and integrating it into your experience and shaping your world so that it is safe to do so. Yeah, the afterlife series. I still can't believe but I can, that it's R because of that one word. And yet, I just saw Jackass, is M. Hello, they piss and crap all over each other, beat each other up and there's nudity and like all the things you typically think aren't acceptable in the greater scheme of things, for many reasons, but yet because of one word, this beautiful series, like seriously, I'm gonna watch it again and again. I just finished it and beautiful, absolutely beautiful. And so it does give you that, there was one comment that's on Twitter I think it was that Lad Bible picked up - Iit's a term of endearment in Scotland. The C bomb. Yeah. And that's the same sentiment in their house. Yeah.

Nicole Smith
And isn't it, that's a great example of how powerful words can be when they're into well, regardless of the interpretation that you hold to them, but that other people can have that association with a particular word. And I know that that's something that you've made me very aware of through all of our conversations over the past few years and the power of language and not only for the external, but the internal and how I now look at words and feel and experience words in a very different way than and communicate with people. We've had lots of conversations like this has happened and you're like, Nicole, you know what to, you know what to say. I'm like, Yes, I do.

Kathy Rast
You know, the questions to ask off you go, come back. Make that decision confidently, you've got the questions there

Nicole Smith
Exactly. And that leads us into client-ing, I think as well because communication, relationships, working, supporting, you know, being around different people, and especially when it's in, you know, the business world and the personal well, all of the world's. Finding that way how you like to client, or you enjoy clienting.

Kathy Rast
Should we explain what clienting is first. A way of explaining clienting. So if anybody sees my copy, there's usually a hyphen, ing on something. And it's usually something that's so fixed, that people have a story or a meaning or a definition or a expectation around it. And so I just, I actually just did a spellcheck on some copy I just sent off. And the only thing that it picked up was all the words that I created. There were like, 58 of them in this particular document. And it was just finding so I'm like oh cool. I thought, na I thought I've gone through and done some really good, nope, they're all my words. How wonderful, love it! Yes, I do peeve off Grammarly all the time. And it's a wonderful little robust conversation that we have. But it's, so clienting goes two ways. And it's always two ways. And it's a living, bi-directional relationship. And so when I talk about clienting, I'm talking both as being a client, as well as delivering and working with a client as in the service or product being purchased or, and purchase any type of currency that we're talking about here. Yes, it might be money, it might be time, it might be expertise, it might be whatever it might be. And so I yeah, I really want, well I am, I'm expanding the idea of clienting. And the main premise around that is knowing where one starts, and one stops. So when someone is going to get a, I don't even like the word assistance or help. When somebody is employing somebody to do something specific. Then we need to know what parts ours and what parts this from both parties. So that we both play our part of that, how about that we actually just did it, didn't we at the very start talking about conversations, we know our roles. And we know how when we play them, that it's really easy to engage. And it's really easy and confident to show up wholeheartedly. And the whole concept about confidence or honesty and uncomfortable. It just doesn't even it's not even a thing. And we don't even need to talk around it because you just go well, this is my part. And I'm going to play this. And I'm going to play at heart. And I know that you hold your space as well. And it's kind of that wonderful dance from Dirty Dancing. That's your dance space. This is mine. Let's cha cha. And so it's really about knowing where you start and stop when somebody else starts and stops. And I guess the best example I can give you is in my own business. It's easier for both confidentiality reasons, but also just for what it feels like from being the author. From my experience. I'll speak from my experience as opposed to the wonderful opportunities I've had to connect with beautiful clients. You can speak speak from yours in a moment do you like that your podcast and I'll tell you when you can speak. In my business. I started off in doing what I was told I was very good at which is working with people about things I knew about which were connected to health and I'm very good at it. I've had a very lumpy bumpy face planty burning, wonderful sensation of all this shit. for about 20 years, I had a series of chronic illnesses and language really did help me out of that rut. But what happened is I went in and I did what I was told that I was very good at because I did have such a depth. But what happened is I realised I couldn't distinguish no matter what the time, day whatever it is, what was me and what was them. So at times I went further and passed my role with the best of intentions, which clouded the experience. And that's not fair to them or to me. And so whilst it was safe, and it was, it was okay, it's not okay, especially for me giving because I wasn't showing up 100%. And that means they weren't getting 100% of what they had employed me to do. So I consider that line now to be porous. It's not flat and smooth and water doesn't, parts of me leak into those experiences and those opportunities. So I've chosen consciously, to not work in that space. I can, and I've had amazing results, but I, I can't do it. It takes part of my soul. And I need that. And so I went okay, cool. So if I can't do that, what can I do? And well, I can do this part over here. So now I've changed what I do, I take the skills that I've had and experience that I had, and I brought it into a wonderful space of shaping other people to learn to client, so that it's a wonderful experience, a client experience, end to end, including a not client experience. And so, by doing that, all of a sudden, it's really easy and self propelling, and charging, and all those kinds of things to do me and my business. Guess it's I've got itchy skin. And it's really uncomfortable. And I'm doing a lot of work to set myself up, which we'll talk about in a moment, I'm guessing, in this particular thing that I've designed and created. But it's all of that other talk, and questioning and effort that goes into those cognitive resources, because thinking does require a lot of resource. That's not there. Because I know exactly what's me, I know exactly what's my client, and I guide them to do the same. Even just come up with another fun way, then I'm going to make the client experience go up again, and make it easy to know when you need to client, how you client and how you get the most of working with me in our brief time together and your wonderful story. So yeah, that's a long explanation. But I don't think I've articulated that in such a way to you yet. But what do you think, what's your thought? what's occurring? What's the crack, I won't finish what I usually say.

Nicole Smith
I'm just glad you don't have your other drink bottle that you normally have.

Kathy Rast
oh no, I have the reverse today.

Nicole Smith
If you want to know about Kathy's drink bottle, you'll have to message us and we'll do one. Now, I working with you being one of your clients and in your sphere. You know, working with people as well, there is that and I've explored that line that you mentioned that can be when you first especially when you first start working in the space that you've chosen to work in, knowing where you've given enough understanding where that is and that you come to that door or that a window, whatever you want to call it that moment. And know that it's now over to their side to take what you've worked with to you know, explore and evolve and whatever it might be and know that that's okay. That you have done all the things you've all the the the work, the learnings, the discoveries, all up to that point. I know that if I flip it to the personal world for a moment, because I, it's how I associate that you've got those really strong personal relationships. And I know growing up I've always taken on in the past you were about to pull me up there.

Kathy Rast
I don't need to do that anymore.

Nicole Smith
You don't no, in the past I would absorb. I would call myself an empath. I would call myself someone that felt a lot. And there was a moment in time not that long ago. And I did reach out to Kathy and I said oh, I'm the only person they can rely on and they go through all these things and dah dah dah dah.

Kathy Rast
Go on say the word, exact word that I said. I said bulllshit. You're not that pow, you're amazing at many things, but you're not that powerful. You could not feel for that person. Knock it off.

Nicole Smith
And it was it was a real moment though. That yeah, I was like oh, yeah, okay. Okay, so now I know that what are the tools I have that I can support myself to make that now just the every day and you know that I can't feel for you. I can be with you. I can sit next to you. But this is whatever, clientin, personal whatever it might be, humaning, as we say, yeah, it's, that's the over your side of the fence and I can sit right next to you, but I can't take on all of it.

Kathy Rast
If I choose to sit next to you. You still might not be allowed in my orbit. And that's me, not you.

Nicole Smith
Yeah, yeah. So moving that back into clienting I think that skill alone,

Kathy Rast
I love how you've still got your phone voice on.

Nicole Smith
It's a podcast, I get my headset on and my mind microphone it's just ahhh.

Kathy Rast
And I forget that I'm on podcast sometimes after write it down. You're being recorded.

Nicole Smith
Oh, now I'm not gonna be able to talk.

Kathy Rast
Yes, you know, I'm laughing at you, not with you.

Nicole Smith
Okay, so

Kathy Rast
I just love the real Nicole voice not the singing that, I love the singing one. But you know what I mean. I just, yeah. Let's show them how we really talk, your voice is down an octave. It's not as smooth in the transitions like, it's more like, Kathy, what about this? If you talk like that, then they'll know what they're going to talk like, with you in your conversations with ya.

Nicole Smith
Yeah, I don't know how like, it's, it's

Kathy Rast
There you go, there it is.

Nicole Smith
This has compltely thrown me off. Okay so this is this is what happens if you join us on a chat's and cheers Friday afternoon drink. You know, whenever we have it last Friday of the month, this is what happens. Just general conversation, she'll be like, Nicole, stop it. Like,

Kathy Rast
Well you can keep going that way. But it's really, I love listening. And I'm just saying this because I love listening, if it sounds like somebody is polishing something, and they've coming across, I love how you like you'd like how do I get hold of this you're rubbing your hands back and forth. I love this. I think there's something about listening to the wonderful lumpy and bumpiness of someone's voice. The stops, the starts, the smooths the roughs, and this is part of what you've been working with me on anyway. So we're kind of doing that together and getting that real life example. We can when natural bullshit detectors humans are, we can tell when something is congruent. So everything you're saying is absolutely beautiful. And it's right on point. It's congruent. It aligns with what's important to you, your values and your personalities. But then there's just that ease of saying, Yeah, I want to work with you. Because I know that you're real. I know that your voice is kind of either scratchy, or you might start to run a word. Or you might take two goes at forming a question. Or you might pause and love a silence. And it's that wonderful thing of cool. This person is really connecting with me in this moment. But what that felt like, and I know you love this, people probably think oh my gosh, she's so rude. And like No, and Nicole knows 100% mean this as like, with all the love and care in the world. And it feels like when people it feels like initially that you were talking to your crowd, but kind of I was sitting off to the side. And I just love and I know that other people love it too, when you just sit there and we're just talking other people just happen to be listening in and we just happen to let them share this conversation. That's all we're doing. And I got onto a podcast recorded somebody that you introduced me to the other day, then and I looked up the word interview. And I'd love this idea of interview to come in. Because I do love to go to the dictionary every day. And it I think it was coming from a French origin meaning I've written it down it sick because I feel see each other Yeah, so I've got that in my head. So as I was hearing your words, and I'm strongly auditory, as I was hearing that I'm like our but she's talking to them over there. Dude, I'm right here in front of you. You can see me we talk like this and people people that love to listen to you will love to listen to you even more. Yeah, how does that resonate? Sit with you smash in the face?

Nicole Smith
The comfortableness of evolving from what has been to what can be and that's, thank you for making me aware of that.

Kathy Rast
Yeah, it's a pretty cool thing isn't it though that, I mean, you notice that when you're listening to people talk, don't you? Especially because you love listening to podcasts. Yeah. And you can tell the difference can't you. Yeah, it's the same with a very polished speech. Like, oh, you practice. Well no, if you've practised so much it sounds like you and it's so polished like it's so it sounds still polished. That means you haven't practised it so much so that now it sounds like you're talking with me. It sounds like you're reading something. Yeah.

Nicole Smith
Yeah and that's true. Not that I'm reading any of these things.

Kathy Rast
No, no, no you're not. Because you're hearing that wonderful rhythm that you hear. In your typical podcast conversations, which are usually scripted questions, aren't they usually q&a, q&a. But no, we got onto this call and we went what are we gonna talk about? I don't know. What do you want to talk about? I think I told you how I was radioactive at one stage. And, yeah and then we just got on and we're having a conversation that we're happening to share with your people.

Nicole Smith
Yeah, that's so true.

Kathy Rast
So if I was to ask you right now, where would you like to take this conversation?

Nicole Smith
Well, it's, it's all about, what I'm looking at is is the awareness of how we are, as people in business, in life, and how we can create or form a way that we enjoy to be and discover who we actually are just naturally without putting the you know, my background is theatre, and singing and performing. And so naturally, I just don't even know I'm doing it. I revert straight into performance mode. Yeah, because it's just so natural. I've been doing that since I was five years old. Yeah. And so forgetting for me, I don't know this is going to be a thing. And I'd love people that are listening, I'm talking to right now not Kathy. Tell me if you notice a difference over the next few episodes, if there is a change now that I've had this conversation with Kathy and becoming more aware of it. Maybe it's that I put the microphone over there a little bit more, and maybe don't, well I have to wear the headphones. But yeah, hmm.

Kathy Rast
It's yeah, it's a really cool thing. What does this suggest to you that you're in performance mode, I mean, because you can see me I've got my microphone right in front of me. But this is where I have all my real conversations. I rarely meet people and in the same room, I'm not a kind of like in-person, unless it's to a to a group of people. But rarely do I meet people in person, it really is in front of a microphone on this computer. So I've trained this in such a way that I'm genuinely connecting with someone in this space.

Nicole Smith
So thinking about the process of what I did this morning, when I came onto the podcast, I removed my microphone, and moved it. So it's there. Connecting the moving of the microphone is not, will not be the connection of going on to stage because that's what I do you see and everyone who's been on the podcast before I do a ritual before, not intentional, unintentionally now, but I uhhhh and we're gonna push the record now. Like that's what I do every time. So,

Kathy Rast
And I was laughing I had turned my camera off and my my coffee becasue we were laughing to hard and you were like, I'm pressing record now. Pressing record now. Okay, I'll let you do the job.

Nicole Smith
Yeah, and then okay, so this is a great example of evolving, what has been, to what I can do.

Kathy Rast
It's about bringing what's out of your awareness into your awareness and making a choice. Yeah, you could say, Kathy, that's a really cool observation. And I may consider I may adapt, I may not. And, or I may use it in this instance. Or I may, or I could see myself using it in this instance. And then I'll do this over here. Anything I say goes as far as your ears as soon as it hits your ears. It's yours. Yeah. Anything as soon as I say it, or write it, or whatever it is, as soon as it's published in whatever form it is. It's no longer mine. That's yours. Because I can't make you do anything. Yeah.

Nicole Smith
Do you know what, I actually really love that that happened as uncomfortable, as uncomfortable as it was.

Kathy Rast
Yeah but you're so good at that now. You're like, oh, wait, because you know, oh, no, this is what and then we go this is where, I've just court something. So what you've just wonderfully shared the opportunity for your beautiful people to and I assume they're beautiful because you only attract beautiful people into your orbit, that was a little brown nosing. So was about what, the awareness of a sensation of an experience that you have consciously, initially, but then that was quite unconscious for a good part of that process. You've trained that story and going wait, I've got enough experiences under my belt working with Kathy to go this is going somewhere and it's going to where I want to go. And I know what part is mine and what I can do with it and what I want to do with it dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. You've got this whole wonderful story like oh, there's that bit where it, ah, jeez change, growing or whatever we're gonna call it today. Purple, it just has that, that tickle that itch, or whatever it is. So it's, you've got enough to know what that is. So the other day i i was getting ready to send something to a client. And I had this urge and I call it feeling stupid. Now the wonderful thing is I looked up stupid. Oh fancy that, Kathy and the dictionary, and it comes from the Latin word for or, ah sorry for stunned or or. Something like 'or struck' or something like that. I can't remember off the top of my head. But anyway, basically your you've stopped. Yeah. And I'm like yeah, that's right, because but what that normally would have been is like, I don't have the answers. I don't know what to do. I dah dah dah. So we shaped both our experience and a client's experience through what we are saying to ourselves. So a lot of what we've done together, isn't it both in and outside of shaping the product that that I'm working with you on. Is what you're saying to yourself, which then shapes your experience of the experience, which sense shapes the potential experience that your clients are experiencing. And so it's really about then being able to catch stories that are aligned or not aligned, and then how you can tweak them so easy and no longer do you say something's hard you say it's not easy yet. And you go cool, what do I need to change or if was to know what I needed right now or you've got so many questions in your wonderful arsinal, you say toolkit, I say arsinal, walk into their armoury and go in and grab your best big bazooka and go whoo, let's fire off it, let's get this party started. And you can then, you then shape what happens to go you're all about easing one's day. And it's not just what systems you use or how you use them you can have the most schmick look in zaps and click ups in oh me, I've got dubsado in there as well and all these fandangled things and systems that you get all excited about that aren't my jam and but if the human part doesn't play their role and look at it with the love in the role and and things that it does then it's not going to be reaching its full potential. It's going to have that stuck in the mud feeling of being pulled down and weighed down and that really I think we come up with another way to describe burnout didn't we the other day the snuffing of one slide as in it can be seen as someone being snuffed, the burnout could be both that whole candle with the candles taking the air out the room but also it could be that it's just used to everything you've got and there's no fuel left so it's not the air being taken out it's the fuel has burned all there is that means there's no longer any heat. And so there's no fire, those three elements aren't there so that was a long way of saying you are doing amazing in and this is not about kissing ass. I don't, I don't do that. It's not, I wish you did on all the other days. I know you sometimes do it on a Tuesday. But it's it's really about going cool this is, you know what you can do and you know you do you and you know that anything that comes your way from here is what the intention is and you've got enough experience in the sensations in your body to catch those stories and shape those stories to where you want to go. Does that makes sense. Yeah, absolutely. That was all lot of words.

Nicole Smith
But all really important and making people aware or becoming aware ourselves becoming aware that if we look at thing whole things,

Kathy Rast
We have to become aware. Can we just be aware?

Nicole Smith
Be aware! Yep

Kathy Rast
Awaring, getting warier. That's all, isn't it? We go warier so as we come, oh, how cools that! So we

Nicole Smith
New word! I said to Kathy the other day, she, I would love her to go and work for one of the dictionaries. So, get all these actual things that you're discovering and your curiosity with words, like, let's get them out there, but make them a thing.

Kathy Rast
Well, I'm building my own dictionary in clickup as I do. So maybe that's as it is. So we become as we become more aware. So I guess I'm likening that to starting something. Well, if you're focusing on starting, dude, you never going to do it. Because you're always starting, as opposed to, as soon as you decide you're going to do something, guess what you've already started. So you're already doing it. So I am blah, I, anytime you focus on something so much so that's all you're focusing on. It's like you don't focus on the process, you focus on the outcomes. Yes. Because if you focus on the process, that just happens to be how you get from A to D. If you focus on the process, then guess what, it's always going to be about the process. And so that's like, if we look at our clients or being a client, if we just focus on that, then guess what's going to suffer everything else. Because as soon as a client doesn't go the way that we thought it would, that plane crashes down. So we, so by becoming aware, we are aware, and then we get awareier, which could then go to weary, we become warier. And I feel like the guy off of My Big Fat Greek Wedding, how he he does that wonderful thing with their grandkids. That comes from the Greek art. I love that. But that could be it as a, as we get weary, as we become aware. So what about we just, were, you know how you can be whelmed, you can be overwhelmed and underwhelmed but can just be whelmed. So if you can be aware, and you can be weary, can you just be ware?

Nicole Smith
Well, you can you can be anything you want can't you.

Kathy Rast
You can, and you can have fun doing it.

Nicole Smith
Yeah. And this, you know, creating those stories coming back to how our original conversation in your podcast, you know, it's that association with the words. And

Kathy Rast
Moving, always,

Nicole Smith
Always Yeah, absolutely. I love it. I love our conversations. And you're like, actually, have you thought of? Yeah,

Kathy Rast
What would it be if it was like this?

Nicole Smith
I'm now aware of it

Kathy Rast
Yeah. Oh, how fun would that be? If we do this, then it's always that sense of fun and lightness. And fun is connected with the idea of fall and falling, which is often connected with silliness, and or deception. But really, it's, I wrote the words the other day for someone around fun a set of words, they'll keep going. And that is that fun is the delivery system to hold something lightly. So it's a difference between and when I say delivery system, I think of medication. Because if you get like the chemist brand, or, versus the brand brand, and then this brand, the main thing is, is there the same recipe, but one of the things that is different is a delivery system. And so it's different in how and that's really does and so if we talk about what I do with people, it comes into a new deal with people. So in my way, it's around personalities, and how they show up. So that's the delivery of the same thing. 150,000 other people are saying, and it's the same thing with you. I mean, how many people love and absolutely fan over clickup? And will you deliver in this way? And you're by no means a generic brand. So it's about who goes oh yeah, I like the way she does it. That person is pretty cool. But I like the way she does it. Yeah. People usually talk about price and those kinds of surface level things. No, when you're playing at the level we play at, it's like actually, I'm investing in that because I know I'm going to get the best out of that. It's going to happen. It may happen little take longer. It may happen sooner, but I know it's going to be something that will change all of these wonderful things

Nicole Smith
just interrupting this episode for one little message. If you have been listening and love what you hear and want to come in connect, we have a Take Control with Nicole Facebook community right over there on Facebook that I would love to invite you to come and join us. We are a supportive community, we are looking to really take action in our businesses and change the way or evolve the way we're working right now. So I invite you to come on over and join our community and connect with us all. Community is the essence of everything in business, being able to really build those relationships that you can nurture, and grow and support and celebrate each other. Oh, how fabulous, I hope to see you over there, pop on over to Facebook, take control with Nicole, see you soon.

Nicole Smith
I love that you move the conversation there. Because when we start businessing or clienting that value on the dollar exchange is so hard. It's so prevellant

Kathy Rast
It's easy. So it's an easy unit. It's like time, it's an easy unit. And that's all it is. It's the minds way, I mean, we are made up of water and electricity, which all follow the path of least resistance. It's easy for a lot of a group of language and words and concepts and things that we're about to employ someone with that we don't know, that's why we're bloody employing them. Is that something that we can understand. We understand that 100 cents equals $1 in Australia, so that it or 60 minutes equals an hour. And so by, it's like okay, great. So that's all that is. But really, what happens is, and this is where I've really found the sweet spot for the people that are and aren't my clients is, yeah they have a ballpark. So it's nice to have a ballpark if we talk about money for a moment, it's nice to have a ballpark. And it's like words, it's like the sun, it's not there to be looked at for too long. It's just to know and to see what it can create. And if it's possible, we want you to walk into a conversation going, actually can I play at this level yet? Or is that whatever it is, I know, amazing people that are grossly under charging. And I know people that are maybe charging greater than what their scope or capabilities can go as well. And that's not necessarily connected to qualification. So there's no one easy baseline to go off. So it just makes that processing really easy. But we want people sometimes I just had an it now I was happy to pay for something. But they put one price one place. But then when I went to go and book it in a place, which I couldn't find easily, it was a whole different price. It was almost double. Yeah, and for the scheme of things, it wasn't that much. It wasn't a big thing, but it was just kind of like, oh, that's, now I have to calibrate and adjust and use energy to do that. It's fine, but it's not fine. I kind of, if you walk in and you ask and you have a conversation, you engage that energy in that transaction, that effort and connect with that person realise their way outside your price range, you get a sense of things like embarrassed or you then start to question yourself, or instead of what we really want people to do is go oh, you're on my wish list. When I achieve this, this and this because I know I will achieve these things. Guess what, I'm coming for you. Yeah, put me on your your warm leads board and keep the conversation going. Usually I talk, I play a long game with most of my clients. Because especially at the level that I'm playing, I mean, everything's about to go up the first wave, you first wave of the people that have worked with me, or at least should go, you've been amazing. And you're part of that wave. You've been grossly over serviced as I promised. So those prices are going to go up with the amount of energy and effort.

Nicole Smith
Absolutely!

Kathy Rast
Like it's I mean, it's just, it was just stupid wasn't it? What I did.

Nicole Smith
But it's a point, a starting point and that's yeah, it's a, is this a thing? Oh, I know it's a thing but now I've got to actually go to test if it's a thing. And if what I think is the thing is what the people want. And I can absolutely say wholeheartedly say this to you. I've got my document open on my phone all the time. And any anything that I'm looking at, responding to, creating posts, you probably actually want to talk a little bit what we're talking about. But because we haven't spoke about that, but um, it's my, it's my rock. It's my guide. It's my reference, it's my go-to.

Kathy Rast
Because I'm, but you don't need me.

Nicole Smith
No! Well, I need you Kathy.

Kathy Rast
I've tried to break up with you a couple of times, you're that piece of chewy that sticks around in the hair. You're either gonna cut it loose, or you're just gonna grow it out.

Nicole Smith
Please tell everybody what we're talking about. Because it's honestly just,

Kathy Rast
I love how you still want to stick around when I just called you a chewy in the hair.

Nicole Smith
Yeah, I'm just like, Yeah, cool. Yep I am. I'm not going anywhere.

Kathy Rast
So yeah, your business voice, which actually, I love it, I haven't got the website up to date with it yet, because I didn't really know where it was going and how big it would be, I just felt that it was going to be a thing. And it's a product and a service in and of itself. And that an I like in a service is something that usually is that thing that you can't hold in your hand. And a product is something that you know, on hand, that's my simple differentiation there. And so it is a service to a product. Because I found there was a gap. Initially, I started in businessing, because there was a gap between the learning and the application, there's this expectation that that consumer, that student, that person will take that theory or that framework or that system, whatever it is, and know how and have the energy, mainly the energy, but also a level of expertise to customise it to themselves. And so that was a really big gap, when I heard people kept talking about things, and yet they weren't applying it in what they're already teaching other people to do, and it rubbed my values up all the wrong places. So I just felt that, you know, when you rub a balloon, and I used to have the globaphobia, which is fear of balloons, I still don't feel comfortable with them. But when they hear that sound, I just feel like throwing up, it's a funny sensation. Anyway, I, so that's where I started. And then it's come to this where I'm like, uh, you know me, where I've gone, I'll come to you like most days, I'm like, Nicole I've got another way you can do is, I've got another way I can do this, I've got another way I can do this. Now being someone who I mean, now I don't need to go down that path and explain that. But it has been challenging to stick with one thing and to build it out of being a compulsive and being a chronically creative, it means I am a natural lateral thinker. So as soon as I settle on one way, I've got another way. And I've got another three ways that have come off of that. And this is propelling energy that both requires a lot of energy and creates a lot of energy. But it's really, really hard to stay in that one place. Um, that balloon on a windy day that's been tied to a tree, and trying really hard to stay still in that place. And it yeah, so that's how I can describe me in business. So I've really worked hard to stay here on this particular service and product and but it's brought in all of my elements. I've got a Slumdog Millionaire moment where I'm bringing in all of my experiences. So my experience of 20 years in corporate, in various roles, including in forensics and analysis, and as well as in HR and business, large project work, all these wonderful things, working in leadership, and as well as and policing, and all those things as well as in myself, from my psychology, as well as for my natural love of writing and words and curiosity and creating. And it's all come into what we finally landed on which only probably you and one other person knows all of these iterations that I've got here and there are so many aren't there that got to this particular thing where what started as a traditional tone of voice is no longer even remotely, it's got the same, doesn't even have the same headings. It's got the same themes. But it doesn't have even I don't even know how much of the original template that I was inspired by is still in there. I know one part that's in there but still, I've changed that a lot to talk the way that I talk which is talking forward. Because what I do is doing a live build, what did I do I, I started off doing it the way other people were doing it, which was a one hour conversation, just to quickly take you on this ride of creating a live build of a product service. And it went from a one hour conversation with this particular product, to 2, 3, 4, conversations with that person realising that actually, we need to break that up into four conversations. One hour, one, two hour conversation, one and 3, 4, one hour conversations. And now I've actually broken it up even again, after a couple of clients that I'm actually going to break it up even further into individual units. Because what we found was, I really want to shape that clienting experience for me and for them to be sustainable. So this was a really good example where I know that, for me to do my best, it has to be in short bursts. I can't keep stories open for too long. So as much as I love working with people having prolonged projects, is not helpful, because then they get to a point where I'm carrying something that I actually resolved and closed later. But because somebody else has got other business priorities, it can become challenging. So what I did instead was that I, now I'm going to break it up into bite sizes, literal bite sizes and go, we focus on this, we open and close this. And then we keep doing that and go through all the parts. So that way it's kind for the client to client and play their role. And for me to create and play my role in everybody's needs met. So I actually haven't even explained what this thing is. This is, I talk about how it's called your business voice. And it's about how you work with people. But really how you talk to yourself. And how you can be, whether you are your only person, as in, you're a solopreneur if you want to use that lank word, or if you have a virtual team or employed staff or you can be one person, you can be one of 100,000, how you talk to yourself is how you talk with your people, either internally or externally or both. And it's really about you being comfortable and confident in knowing what's you and what's your business. So really, I mean, even at the start your business voice. And in your case, it's a she, she right, she wrote you a letter, and I know you refer to it, just to remind yourself that you are not your business. Then that was the main premise wasn't it, to go because we keep hearing people say ah, I'm my business. I work 24/7. It's like dude, you don't because when did you last sleep? Oh cool, you didn't do that. When you're on the toilet. Are you working on toilet stuff like that. That's gross. So but yeah, it's really about knowing what's your business and what's not. Because it's important to have a balance across multiple parts of your world. It's not the work life balance because work is not the opposite to life. And life is not the opposite to work. Work has a life. And it's that wonderful, I love to think of it and I'm thinking of Jackass now, because I'm looking forward to watching the new movie. I love watching people fall over, is that wonderful seesaw where there's like three, four or more prongs and they're just continually moving around like a wonderful jellyfish. And there's no exact moment that everybody's feet off the ground. There's always something touching the ground, and they're always connected. But then when one thing comes off, the more prongs that are there. That's easier for the others to balance but when there is only one, there's only two and one gets off. There's only one thing to land on. So that's probably where the whole work life balance has come. I'm talking a lot today, dude, how about you talk?

Nicole Smith
No, that's, I always just love to listen and absorb

Kathy Rast
Like, yeah listen to me. Don't ask me questions, listen to me.

Nicole Smith
From my experience going through this process with you and all of our conversations, that what I love about it is that it's that practical. application. And that was I totally agree with you that missing piece that tone of voice, copywriting, all of those things that it's such, there's such an importance on words,

Kathy Rast
And how does, how nice does it feel to have someone do your homework because it's kind of like it because it is coaching skills. I use coaching skills, but it's not. It's just a conversation that has these things that appear to have a structure and feel this wonderful tickle of like, ohhh, I got there. And then, but then there's this wonderful consulting part, which, and this is why I'm not one thing and I've created my own word, which is linguistiologist. I'm not, I'm a consultant as well, because I can say what I'm thinking and give you words and you go, yeah, they resonate with me or no, that's missing the mark. How about we take it here? Yeah, let's do that duh duh duh duh. As well as then there's that wonderful copywriting where I do all the writing. And so it's that wonderful. I know and so much, oh, how much is and I'm just, I know, it sounds like I'm blowing smoke up my own skirt. But I really love it. As in like the strategy of someone, I think what's my latest name that I'm calling myself a story seamstress? And it's about that consistency and bringing out that logic and going I know you love doing this, but how does it tie in with this? Where is that? Where's the client experience in that? Through to like, the navigation of your website and how do they get through there? How does that tie into your proposal, your onboarding, your offboarding, your not client process? And how does that stay consistent and comfortable for you and sustainable for you? Because I really want to snuff out this is so many puns intended, snuff out the whole conversation about burnout. Because there's this assumption that you will just do sprints burnout, sprint's burnout. Noo sprints! Pop a squat on the grass, do a Julia Roberts and have a day at the Polo, just have a wonderful break, and have those sheduled bursts of energy that are sustainable, if you keep getting to that burnout knock it off. Yeah, just get what you get from burnout, which is a pause and design that pause. So that's enjoyable, because then it will last longer. And so if you burn out, typically here, come back three steps, put a break there. I mini break, go and do a Brigette Jones.

Nicole Smith
Becasuse then you're aware of it aren't you. Again, and every time it happens, it happened. It will become quicker. And I know that that's something not in the burnout phase. But in the language and the reactions for me. I know at the start, I've got to the point of ah, and then all of a sudden it's like, oh, hang on, this is happening. Yep. Okay, all right, I know what to do here. You've got a choice. And find the thing I need and apply it. Yeah. And, you know, learn from what happened. And then next time, it will be earlier.

Kathy Rast
Yeah. And it really is about that. It's that choice, creating that choice. And going you know what, if you want to burn out, go for it, boasts to the world go for it, everything. Or you could go actually, I'm going to change that experience, I'm gonna have the same outcome, as in, but I'm going to do it with a healthy body. And there's no permission needed. There's no somebody else telling you to do it. It's just like you say you, you make a decision and go actually, I've got what I need. And so I just really like to lighten, the whole idea is to lighten in the conversation of businessing. So that means our clients get the best parts of us, not the core parts, the overflow, the really good stuff, the cream,

Nicole Smith
We are out, we've got the business that we've created and our place placed in that and how we decide we're going to be aware of it. I've touched on so many things that can help to get there.

Kathy Rast
I know and I did a verbal vomit in the middle. So thanks for that we're just like, oh, this is what I've realised I've done in my own process. So I apologise if you leave it in there. You can leave it in there or chuck it out. That's totally fine. If it doesn't make sense.

Nicole Smith
I'll leave that up to Cass, she can make decisions on conversations in here. That's fine.

Kathy Rast
Yeah, that was just a really good example of me using my own business voice, and going and going through just a process and weaving that story to how I got to here to what, rather than going and diving, what is in something's like, actually, this is the product of all of these things. And this is where people go, well, what's the value? And people look at it. This can I just say one more thing? I know that we say this, and then we go for about another 50 minutes. But we, when we look at that exchange, it's really what the clients getting. Yeah. And usually it's if they're handing over something tangible. But really, it's about you getting all the stuff that have led to that point. Yeah, absolutely. Like even I said to you just before there's oh, this is going to be in the next evolution of your business voice. And that's part and parcel as the time and pricing and availability goes up and those kinds of things. And so really, you really do, it yeah, it's about what that exchange is, and what you get back from it as well. It shapes what you can give. So yeah, it really is about understanding that something, especially if it looks really simple. Oh, there has been more hours than you can count.

Nicole Smith
Isn't it the saying, you know, you're, you're not? What is it? You?

Kathy Rast
I wanted to write you a short letter, but I didn't have time.

Nicole Smith
Ahh what?

Kathy Rast
Haven't you heard that?

Nicole Smith
No.

Kathy Rast
It's like a short letter or something

Nicole Smith
You you, you employ or you find the person that knows the button to press, you know, or you work with? Versus the

Kathy Rast
Where's the any key?

Nicole Smith
Yeah. I don't see any key. Yeah, you know, you're looking, that's why you choose who you want to work with is a, you like them as a human in the way that they're delivering. But they're the person that's going to help you solve the questions that you've you're asking over in here, whatever that might be is what business voice do I need?

Kathy Rast
Do you think it's also that they have, they've done what they they're talking about?

Nicole Smith
Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

Kathy Rast
So they're so congruent, but they also know what part of that is them and what part of them is that is you. So they're still not, if somebody's still working, like as in like, on those poorer services surfaces, hah Freudian slip ahh that they still haven't got it together for themselves. Like, I'm very wary, I will say wary of working with someone brand new, especially if it's something really, really important to me. I need someone who's so polished, that they won't bring themselves into me. Yeah. And I've done that before. And that's where I have got burned. So it's being about really confident and comfortable. And I'll say this an example for you, especially because I typically only work with people that are used to driving, the ones that are used to holding the room, the ones that are used to calling the shots. And you tried it a couple of times didn't you?Where you tried to take the steering wheel, and I went, hey knock it off.

Nicole Smith
Oh, yeah, you get turned the zoom off on me. You were like nope.

Kathy Rast
You're here to client be the client be 100% the client, and that's where you're going to get the most from this process. So this is not where you're driving. This is not your zone of expertise. That's what you're employing me to do. So what you can do is be the client 100%. So yeah, that's where it,

Nicole Smith
What an enjoyable space to be in when you are being the client. Yeah, because on the flip side and now I'm thinking about I don't know, if you were talking about you working with me or me working with you, but when we start you were like, okay, Nicole, you are the client, this is your space. Yeah, you're the client, you don't, if you want to give me feedback that's another thing. But that's not in this space, here. This is, your the client, and it was fabulous to take a backseat and be there and be guided.

Kathy Rast
And then you tried to take, when you get into those really vulnerable times, I went great so that you going to your default setting, which is about systems and human integration and making the workflow flow. This is where we can do that. But it's not here. Yeah. And I do I put my very seat for all the fun that I have. I put my very serious voice on and go knock it off. And yeah, it is that one, you can do it, but you can't do it here. I'm not allowing that because that's not the intention and the purpose of what you're employing me to do here. So that would not get you what you want. That will scratch an itch and that's that's like doing your, it's, it's just like having a treat. It's kind of like getting and rewarding that behaviour of no doing the thing that you're there to do it is a positive reinforcement of sorts. So, yeah, it really is about. So where I was going with that point, because I know you, you wrapped up the conversation or opened up a little bit further. It really is about clienting and having that confidence that that person will do their thing for you. They won't do their thing on you. As in, so when when I'm clienting, so somebody else is my clients, there's not much talk about me is there. Whereas in this whole conversation, it's you and me. And it's all about me at the moment. But where is it, so there'd be very light, if any conversations that pointed back towards me, it's just pointing towards you. And that's what that's really important about understanding in clienting, if somebody keeps bringing it back to them. Guess what, it's not about you as the client. So having that confidence to go, can this change? Can I shape it as much as within my scope. Hello, I'm the one paying for this. Or do I want to exit it? And it's a bi-directional relationship, as in that person can close a relationship as both the provider but also you as the client can close a relationship at any time. When it's not meeting that agreed outcome.

Nicole Smith
It reminds me of, you know, and this was definitely me in the past, you'd have a conversation and be like, oh, someone comes up. Oh, I did this thing. And dah dah dah dah dah and then your response would be oh, well, when I did that thing, and bla bla bla bla bla. And it's yeah, it's it's learning.

Kathy Rast
Because the mind the unconscious, the mind unconsciously personalises it because it's a safety measure, just to make it relevant to you to process it, but also to check in on the safety and if it's safety to do that for survival. So somebody who is there, and conscious and aware, and then we just become second nature that it's 100% about you. They catch that direction and go wait, no, that's me. And before that words even spoken, or they or like me, I'll write things down if something pops up. I'll write things down. It's not for you to take. It's not for you to have this air, this airspace. You bought this airspace for this particular purpose, this outcome. This is all yours. And if that if that next sentence, if that next comment, if that next suggestion is not majority, if not 100% for you. Shut up. That's the main thing.

Kathy Rast
I did say it to someone the other day, they went to give me a suggestion and was totally unsolicited, and it wasn't appropriate. And it actually triggered a bunch of events that they would never have known about. And I left there very unhappy. And it was because yeah, they didn't ask permission. And they said it to scratch their itch.

Nicole Smith
Yeah. And that's something that again, through our conversations, look at us keep going. I'm not gonna say, I'm gonna call it, I'm gonna end it. This is what happens on a call and we'll just chat, chat, chat, chat and it's all like this. A lot of the time, isn't it Kathy?

Kathy Rast
Yeah. So even so much so that now we're gonna do Pomodoro sprints aren't we?

Nicole Smith
We're very, very tiny.

Kathy Rast
For our first one, our first sprint is our conversation bit and then we get to work, don't we?

Nicole Smith
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Okay, so, where can the listeners find you?

Kathy Rast
Ah, well, so it's easy enough to find me at kathyrast.com. That is my live website. So it's a wonderful dog's breakfast that is forever changing. So it's easier just to ask me something that got you got excited about, it got you excited here but otherwise, I've got my podcast there at the Linguistiology podcast where I think you're putting the link to the C bomb that wonderful episode I did have fun recording that talking to myself as well as my blog which I'm growing in there as well. But I mainly hang out daily on the stories in Instagram @Kathy.l.rast.linguistiologist.

Nicole Smith
All of the links will be in the show notes so pop on over. I am, probably a tag Kathy and stories and stuff all the time as well but go over connect, chat all the things words,

Kathy Rast
Laugh at me. DM, yeah, I just loved the whole warm up. I just love the idea that we start a conversation and then yeah, then it's usually people that work, want to work with me go, they're usually asking me and they go, right, how can I work with you?

Nicole Smith
It all starts with a conversation.

Kathy Rast
It does, buy me a drink first. Don't just jump in and buy something just start a conversation tested out first.

Nicole Smith
Well, everyone listening, we're going to stop that record button now. But I hope you all have a wonderful rest of your day and just enjoy being your fabulous selves. We'll see you next time, see ya!

Nicole Smith
Well, there we go. Thank you so much for joining me today. It's been such a pleasure having you on board. Have we connected on socials yet? If not, please come on over say hi, I'm on all the platforms @theartisanssolutions. So I'd really look forward to seeing you over there. And if you enjoy today's episode, don't forget to tag me and I'd love it if you could leave a review. And of course share this with others so others can come and join us next time. Alright, then everyone have a fabulous rest of the week and until next time, see ya then.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai


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