Transcript

Nicole Smith
Welcome to Take Control with Nicole, as business owners we experience first hand the fine line between our personal and business lives. During our conversations, we will look at simple hints and tips to create time, reduce overwhelm, and help you to navigate through your journey to where you want to be. If you’re looking for smarter ways to work, and create space and time freedom in your day, then you’re in the right place. All right, let’s go.

Nicole Smith
Hello, and thank you for joining me on Take Control with Nicole. Well, today we have the fabulous Kathy Rast back with us in the Zoom Room and we are going to be talking about the importance of old charts in your businesses. But firstly, let me introduce you again or reintroduce you to Kathy Rast. So Kathy makes me laugh in between all the business moments I bridge together to get where I am today. And of course where I’m going in my tomorrows. She won’t take credit for my successes, nor will I give them to her. I will say one thing about her. She is making this business journey one filled with all the joy of the child playing with a business box that came in. You see that while Kathy has a way with words that catch the mind’s eye which flips, converts and seduces the joy and beauty in unspecial moments. And while she’s wildly hilarious, especially on Fridays, and beyond clever in all ways, I’ve long since stopped trying to work out how that’s her Tuesdays. Kathy Rast is best enjoyed in the between business sync moments. Those moments that are stalled, stuck or just outright suck all the air out of the room. Kathy Rast has a way to lighten, lift and love a moment often labelled with layers of heaviness, hardness in the outside world. Yes, she does it through her wording ways of making the unworkable work. But there are moments we have not spoken a word. And I have felt. Let me show you right now, insert words here, Nicole is what I see in front of me. I have felt glorious in her space as we converse in the beautiful containers that we have collected and created for us together. Kathy Rast and I have the most beautiful working relationship that many only talk about, long ago we stopped talking about it, and started talking it into what we have today. And yes, as you can imagine, Kathy Rast wrote all those words and laughed and cried out loud, laughed, filled with wholehearted gratitude and rolling joy of what she’s created with her word. She’s giggling her face off on the other side of the Zoom Room as I stumbled through these beautiful words.

Kathy Rast
I hope you don’t edit out the bit about her box. Oh, that was gold.

Nicole Smith
I had to turn my camera off and my mic because you never would have made it. I was losing it on this side. So when Kathy sent these words through a while ago when we first started talking about jumping on and having another episode and I vowed I wouldn’t look at them and I haven’t until just now.

Nicole Smith
Hence the stumbling words but I love it that to me that’s just a glorious example of how fabulous all the things that you do. That’s how fun intros can be.

For those listening, yes you can you are now about to experience a conversation that Kathy and I do on the normals just daily daily chitter chatter together. You may also hear an Emmet dog next to me here. I’ve got him on my lead he’s had a little bit of an injury so we need to keep him in close proximity throughout this episode as well. So it’s the three of us here today. Three of us. Well do we can just jump into it unless there’s anything you would like to share about you all you know I know the answer is no. Wait we can put a bit of context around the conversation. Let’s do it. Go for it, in that I recently. So we met in person for the first time. We were a online love affair from the Vid that is Co. Otherwise I don’t think that we would have met. No, I won’t even go down that path it is Friday so my mind just wants to go to the gutter with that particular little thing I said. Eehoo. So I love that when we met up the first thing that we would like within like five minutes before we even got to the car probably we’re already talking business we love we love love, love love talking about business.

Kathy Rast
One of the things in one of our many, many, many business conversations we had over our extended stay was that, I’m just gonna stop talking about what I do. And just do it. Because it’s too confusing. Yeah, you know, when you’ve had a thing with me?

Nicole Smith
And yes, it’s not touchy, it’s all in the most wonderful ways to get the things happening in your business day. So, yeah, that’s me in a nutshell in the context of this conversation. So can we just talk about a specific thing, please. And by that, we’re going to talk about something that we are working in your business together, which is around the org chart, and the role of the org chart, the structure of the org chart, and how the org chart is important for big and small businessing? And how can I support you to be better in business? Yes, and it has been so fabulous to just chat all the things as we go through. And the org charting has just naturally appeared in the world in the last couple of weeks, hasn’t it, where I’ve been clearly focusing on my business now. And how we can set it up in a way that is going to support not only me, but my humans inside the business and how we are working sorry, Emmett, my dog has got a cone on his head, everyone. So if there is noise here in the background, there may not be, Cass might have worked her magic, but that’s what’s going on here.

So how many people inside our business can support our clients, but in a way that is clear and concise. And so they’re dancing in the spaces that the roles and the responsibilities really clear, basically, in a nutshell. So that’s where we kind of started and it’s been a fabulous journey of words, as we’ve discovered the all the things, so maybe we just jump in, and we’ll come to that I’m sure as we go through.

Kathy Rast
So basically, we’ve kind of spent a short time before actually going in and nutting it out, actually talking about the role of the org chart. And in doing that, just understanding its feet and what it does to support you inside your business. And how it also helps you to recognize and work with your clients even better by understanding at a glance, what the parts and pieces are, what’s connected, what’s not connected, and how your lens of systemising where we can dive into, as well as understand what what is what’s doing what and what’s not doing what and then making sure we’ve got those clear connections between all the parts to create that collective to deliver those business outcomes consistently. So yeah, we spent a short time actually working out what do I need one? And if I did have one, what would it do? If I didn’t have on? How would we still do the same thing? And it keeps coming back to by having this simple chart, and these important conversations around it? We started to take it in all these different ways, didn’t we? Where we said like, Ah, okay, so we started off specifically around roles, because that’s where it came in, you’re in a growth space. So you’re growing, and who’s doing what, and then how do you bring in those changes safely, so that everybody in your business? And so this is to you, and you’re nodding away, and I’m trying to do it good. I’m just acknowledging and people that I’ve taken over the conversation just a little while Nicole does have this wonderful, energized dog with a cone on its head, jumping around, she’s doing amazeballs by the way, to be really, really calm. So yeah, so looking at the mainly the roll and it came from one conversation that Nicole and I had, which was around you talking about the amazing people that you’re attracting and welcoming into the Artisans Business Solutions space, and yet, I’m like, dude, they’re lovely. They’re wonderful. They are the bee’s knees. However, they are temporary, and by temporary, they are a human that circumstance may change, they may want to move within the organization, they may want to move on, whatever it might be. So building though this is one of those single points of failures that we build into businesses, where we build a role for a person. And so it’s about building, understanding the business outcomes, building what needs to be delivered, so the deliverables, and building the roles to support those deliverables. And of course, Nicole who, again, still has been amazingly calm on our own podcast, it’s about Systemising. And having those IT, and manual and human systems all playing in on the same team. So it brings all of these complex ecosystems into one, we come up with a wonderful we didn’t we BiCo system, business ecosystem. We love them. We had a good giggle, we like ecosystem.

Defined responsibilities or clearly outlined responsibilities, where her her place sits, and what her daily routine looks like, and what her actionable, measurable achievements can be within that in that space as well. And it just really brought home to me how important creating these structures and these foundations for my team will be so that they can be said to be successful in in the way that they were. Yeah, to build on that it was really one of the changes or parts of change that many people kind of say you got to accept is that there is change. But one of the changes was that, especially you as the the head, the driver, the leader, the decision maker, and all of these things, the delegator on the ground, there were many little, little tiny little things that made sense to you. And we have every confidence in you. And yet it’s like, oh, but am I under threat is my role safe in this place. And so by then, it’s part of our conversation by then taking it into a space of these are the things that we deliver, these are the things we need to do to deliver that. These are the roles and this is where you’re going and evolving and shaping with the wonderful minds that you’re surrounding. One of them is me surrounding yourself with is that looking with that critical eye that eye to detail and going okay, have we got everything? Or are we going to go back into that? Oh, you just pick this up? You’ve got capacity. Now, okay, can we create, and it’s not silos, but it is silos. So we call them containers where you can mix and match those lids, good old Tupperware, that lasts forever, as long as cockroaches. And so it’s this wonderful safety in clarity. But it’s said in a way that is so easy for anybody to be able to connect to at any time. That way, you’re not and this is my old HR brain coming in. You’re not having to reassure people, you’re not having to give people all of the details of all the things but when we see a job come in, we know that okay, this project’s got these things, we know that old mate will be doing this or that old mate will be doing this or that not everybody’s called on mate, but they are in my head will be doing this role. Okay, great. I know my part to play and to perform and how it connects with the other parts to deliver this particular project and the high quality outcome that is expected and has been designed to be delivered by the business. So that’s the role of a hierarchy of a org chart. And I just did let slip hierarchy because that’s what people look at it at. And then can I do a word thing, is that all right Nicole?

Nicole Smith
Yeah, it’s funny you went there, Emmet obviously agrees as well every time you speak because he does well, that hierarchy people associate org charts with that autocratic you know, control of high to low. But yeah, go ahead.

Kathy Rast
Yeah, cool, cool, cool. Thanks. So I’ve actually been, I grew up for about 10 years in an organization that literally had ranked hierarchy. And so I have played a little bit with my experience and the wording space and looked at it in a couple of ways. And so I’ve dived into, just quickly and lightly is that the purpose of each level, if we looked at each level and took out not probably better just to start with ranking, versus roles, they’re actually the same friggin thing. And so that’s where people see rank. And what they’re actually looking at is the levels of delegation, decision. And detail. That’s all that is the difference. So I’ve been in organizations and work with organizations, whether it be small, a company one, or whether it be up to over 20,000. And that’s the same thing over and over again, how much detail, who’s making decisions and for what, because every level has a decision, and delegation. And then it’s the direction as you get higher up and making sure that that whole collective company ship is moving in the direction to align with the vision. So ranking is less about that autocratic behavior, although there is a purpose and point to that particular behavior and and need at some points. And but it’s still balances out that inclusiveness, that inclusiveness of having people being heard, but it’s in an ordered system, travels via a structure, which is really, really important to that consistent and confident operation of organizations and business and just use the term business and organization are interchangeably here. So that there is how I played with it in that I did look up hierarchy, and it does relate to a sacred ruler. And so this is the old stories of where religion and politics come in. And that’s not the case here. If we look at it versus ranking and insert role, each role performs a specific group of behaviors, tasks, outputs, which contribute to the collective, consistent deliverables by the business. So when we think about it, this is a raw an org chart of roles.

Nicole Smith
And it makes it as we sort of been exploring how that can fit in and align with my business. And as we’re continuing to grow, it’s so much easier to when a project comes in to be like, Okay, these are the elements, what support do I need, as the, you know, the the business owner, to be able to create that beautiful experience for for our clients. And so now with the having that clarity, it’s really easy to make those.

Kathy Rast
As well as you can do a quick like stock check, you can do a quick check in on your capacity. So that you can manage both. You can be give realistic timeframes, you can give, like the project start and stop times. And whether you do need to bring in one of the things that we’re talking about is intermittent versus ongoing versus casual ad hoc project based roles, and resources and things like that. So, and this, again, is another example, if we’re actually put a hire an org chart with the same workflow. It’s creating a hierarchy of detail. And so project then breaks off into all these levels of detail. And that again, it’s on a need to know and I just want to touch on that frame. Because this is where it’s really important because the need to know is actually do you need to know it. Because it’s not a withholding of information, which is what some people may know it as it’s actually as is it irrelevant to you to achieve your roles, outcomes, your measures of completion, have, do you need it for your job or not? It’s not a nice to have it’s a it’s a need thing. And that really then, bringing it back into that very, it can seem quite clinical but by having the structure of being clear and precise on what information is shared, where and when and how and, again, feed into what roles and regularly practicing those roles and how they connect together and doing all those things that then makes it easier and aligns our expectations a lot easier as well. So I think that we can start to move it from being that that thing that we once knew it as to actually being something of value, an asset in our business that we actually flippin use.

Nicole Smith
It’s really exciting, isn’t it?

Kathy Rast
And then when we talk about this stuff, I’m like, Oh my gosh, yes, let’s do this.

Nicole Smith
This makes so much sense.

Hey, there just interrupting this episode to share with you a guide that you are going to want to explore. Are you a ClickUp user at the moment? Or have you been sitting on the fence and hearing me talk about at each and every week? And just wondering, what is the next step to tech? Well, I’ve created a guide that’s going to support you on your journey to really design your ClickUp spaces, be able to create those and then connect them into the way that your business operates each and every day, my community have told me that this guide has been a game changer in the way that they really look at their ClickUp workspaces, and operate each and every day. And you can access it as well. So pop on over to my website, the artisans.com.au backslash freebies, and access the action takers guide to click up, how fabulous that you know, you’re ready to evolve your ClickUp journey, you’re ready to move from where you are right now, to where you have always known you want to be. Reach out, let me know I love to hear all about your journey and ClickUp. So I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Kathy Rast
Yeah, it’s exciting and with the clarity, and how you can now see that this can tap into where you can actually use it. Rather than it just being a thing on in your business document, you can actually go okay, I can use it in this sense in recruitment and retention and looking after the wonderful talent that moves in and out to my businessing. You can do it as in your everyday communications, and how you’re actually designing and then in your space, especially your part your lens that you bring to this, which is you’re like, Okay, what automations? What’s going where? Who do I need to tell things? Who don’t I need to tell the things? And are there any gaps? Can we continue to improve this to automate the parts we don’t need the human hands on? And then how do we also, how can we then use those human resources, which we may have turned down things in the past because we needed people to touch other things. But you are currently in the process of losing your mind over ClickUp 3.0. So I know she’s just like her face is like gone. Yes. And so in that you want your if you were in the exact same position two years ago, three years ago, you would have had a very different business systems structure. So now it’s almost like you’ve got to go into another review of then this will help and support that because you can break it up into parts and pieces and prioritize and all those things and love as to how I’m just telling you about your business. And then you can go and go into, okay, yeah, this is what we had to do. And we’re also one of the parts that we’re building into this but not talking about today, which is SOPs, okay, what parts were automated? And what parts aren’t automated? Do we need those parts do we even need, we don’t even do that thing anymore. So because you’re in this has become really, really important to shift from you moving as doing all the things to, and it really did arise. And like when it came with allocating tasks, performing a task in your particular business. And I’m like Nicole, I have no flippin idea what you’re talking about. And in the kindest way that we know. And then it’s like, ah, because that’s where you used to do a lot without documenting or writing or even saying it aloud. You just automatically did it. So they’ll be doing all the things.

Nicole Smith
Yeah, that’s right, this transition period between when you are the solo business human, and you’re growing a team to support you to do those actions, right. And it’s really interesting because my whole business is about supporting other businesses to do this really effectively and efficiently. And so I know how to do all the things because I support all the other businesses to do the things but when it comes to our own internal growth, which is why we look for outside support. I’ve got Audacious Empires supporting me with looking at this strategy of our services and our clients and all the marketing are you will lose your mind Kathy, this chart that Leanne crafted the other day again, another love, love chart anyway. So we’re doing that there, I’ve got yourself who’s helping me with these beautiful conversations to translate in my mind what I know is there but maybe cannot quite articulately get it out into the words and documenting those things and creating org charts and other bits and pieces that we’re continuously conversationing about. And then I’m also engaging Amy from Craft Coaching as another strategic support for my sort of impersonal business and leadership development. So it’s not a do it yourself type of situation. It’s about finding those humans out there, which is exactly what we’re talking about here.

Kathy Rast
You’ve got a finance arm as well, finance?

Nicole Smith
Oh, of course I do. I’ve got the fabulous Stephanie.

Kathy Rast
So you’ve got all these lenses that are feeding in. And that’s, and that’s the kind of thing as well, by positioning those things across there. While it might look like a relatively flat structure at certain levels, it’s actually these are, these are the level, this is where those particular lenses fit in. So each will be looking at the same data or similar data or specific data to that particular thing. But they’re bringing that lens. And so that’s, and that’s the part where I’m, I’m helping you out with the second brain thing, is it because when you come at specific lenses, it’s up to you, as the head honcho to be able to make sense and bring it all together into the one. And that’s a lot on a brain.

Nicole Smith
Yeah, especially when you’re, you know, going through the motions of, I said to Kathy, she would tell say exactly her responses. She’s building a business here.

Kathy Rast
And my response was no shit.

Nicole Smith
Like, yeah, well, I know I have been, and I know I am, I’ve been working with fabulous people. And I’ve been learning all these new things, and the way about me, businessing and how, where I’m wanting to take this business, but it was just this moment of clarity, because of the awareness through conversations and decisions that I’m making for personal and business at the moment that I can see now really clearly how this is going to be the thing that I envisaged three years ago. So yeah, it’s really, really exciting. But to get to that point, on the way, these things, the foundational things, the strategies, the finance, knowledge, that leadership skills, the conversations to be really clear, are really important at this time, right? So we have that Guiding Light to where we’re going. And maybe it’s maybe we can expand the idea of foundation to being anchors.

Kathy Rast
Because anchors have this wonderful way of drawing you to a point and then you can kind of move around with the tides and things like that. And I say this just because my sister has built a house and the foundations are set. You can’t even see them unless you go outside and so maybe foundations is something that we can evolve into what are those important anchors that we need to come back to like the vision like the mission like the impact statement, like the values and those kinds of things? And what lens do I need to bring within with me and those Is it the finances the marketing? Is it the, what else we got in there strategic kind of voice as well and personal elements that I’m bringing into the human parts that I’m bringing into the business as well? No, that just stuck out to me? Well, you were talking, yeah, that’s really true, isn’t it?

Nicole Smith
The foundation word is always floating around all conversations at this kind of strategic level. They’re like well, we need to set and create the bottom to create the growth from you know from there like planting the seed you need the soil right so then they set it and then they don’t go back and look at it. Yeah, true. That’s it is it’s an evolution it keeps evolving.

Kathy Rast
It’s never stuck in stone. So which again, that’s what are its, or it’s a device. So say in mathematics or in language and in things like that. I can give those two examples. There there are formulas, there are devices that we use to do a thing. Yeah. And so it’s the lens, it gives you the structure to look at that. So something like this. So an org chart gives you a structure to have a conversation. And it might be about priorities. It might be about forecasting, it might be about, are we aligning with where we want to be and where we want to go? Or how are we aligning? Or how aren’t we aligning? Or where the fudge did we go wrong?

Oh, there we go. There’s our outlier over there that’s drifted away and made that roll their own note, come back in. That’s where and so you can also probably find that also probably find it like those words. You could also use it as a way of identifying leaks. Yep. And continuing that optimization processing. So it’s just a level of detail, that is so important to keep coming back to as well as it communicates in a glance to anybody what I this is probably the bit that I love, just now that I’ve said that it puts context without having to say the context, you can literally pull it off and go, right, we’re talking about this. And automatically people can see, okay, it’s connected to these, it’s far away from these or it’s okay, did it and then straightaway, somebody like me, who’s all about you do it in systems I do in human behavior and information flow in the internals of the organization. Okay, but that bit needs to know what that bits doing. They’re not connected in any sense. Okay, how can we make that leveraging the current systems that are in place? Boom, basically, that’s what you and I do in a nutshell. Yeah, respective zone. Nice.

Nicole Smith
Yeah. And then you get us in a room and talking to things and it’s four days goes passed. And it’s just like, we haven’t even started.

Kathy Rast
Oh, my, I’ve been busy, I’ll be writing on my walls, I’ve been doing things under the surface out of the mind’s eye of many. And yeah, ticking away. So I’m really excited that like I said, I didn’t have thought I don’t need an org chart. But that’s because I was associating it with roles. Yeah, so I won’t go into it because it will be too far away from this conversation. But as a company of one eye or business of one, I look at it in a way that I can structure so easy to create containers that I can seamlessly shift in my parts of my business.

Nicole Smith
And that’s, that’s a really good point to bring up. Because regardless of how many humans are in the business, there are still various containers of responsibility that we need to cover as an individual human. So you’ve got your day to day businessing, whatever your you know, your service offerings are for your clients, you’ve got the marketing of the business, you’ve got the finance of the business, you’ve got the internal opposite the business and many other it all sorts of things. But by defining what those look like for you, will help you.

Kathy Rast
Oh, you forgot HR, or HR in my business would have a flippin Field Day, I would keep them on their toes.

Nicole Smith
Oh, no, it’s great. Look, it’s been a really valuable conversation, that threads that we’ve been having are continuing to have to really for my own internal business to clearly define and look at who in my world, I need, the roles I need, language and change there. What roles we need in my business for me to successfully be doing the things that I own my roles and responsibilities because they are shifting now to from the doing it all to the delegation to other particular roles in the business and how how I lead that.

Kathy Rast
And just to build on that just the smallest amount. So yes, the roles and the assets where you’re designing and where you’re recruiting, and you’re retaining and all those kinds of things. But one of the things that also has come out of that conversation you referred to earlier is the type of person, what circumstance have they come with, what attributes, what characteristics do they have. So essentially, most of the will at this stage, I can only say at this stage, you’re recruiting a very similar person. And then and this is reasonable to expect across any business, then it’s a matter of taking what they have, and adapting it and supporting it. So adapting those skills to for them to perform the role and to onboard them and nurture their development into adjusting and adapting into the role, and then further supporting them to be autonomous. I can giggle because I will say, the skeleton one of the skeleton roles that we wrote up was autonomous AF. And by that having things like the SOPs and in different ways against stop going into the SOPs, I just love SOPs.

Nicole Smith
But it’s so it’s an important part of the puzzle.

Kathy Rast
I know but we’re talking about org charts.

Nicole Smith
I know, but they complement each other.

Kathy Rast
I know but we’re not allowed to talk about them

Nicole Smith
But why?

Kathy Rast
Because we’ll do our thing and we’re working to keep on task Okay we’ll talk about SOPs another day. I’m keeping us on task. Okay have we covered all the bits?

Nicole Smith
We have lots of interruptions, and Emmet is doing his darndest to let the whole neighborhood know that he’s out there right now. So my role and responsibility today is to be a dog mum, and particularly nice and calm. But being really clear about and knowing the types of skill sets that I require to fill these roles has been really, again, another experience to see a human that and they’ll see other thing just divert for a moment. You’re saying, Am I recruiting like humans that are like me? right skill sets, but they had a past experience, er, circumstance? Yeah. And circumstance? Yeah, yeah, that’s right. I’m just going now I’ve seen the people, I now have the roles and responsibilities, and I look at what skill sets we need. And then we marry those up and that decision to go Yes. First of all, it’s yes, I like you, as a human, you’ve I can see that you’re a good fit for for working with us at The Artisans. What are your skill sets? What do I actually need? They’re marrying up, fabulous, let’s do this. Let’s invite you to come and join in the team for this particular role. Kind of like proactive recruiting. And that yeah, that was the that was where I was going, I can get there eventually. I, from up to now. What has my experience has been is that the people that are invited to work in my business are already in my orbit. We have a relationship we’re building we’re creating it’s scaling. And so it’s really easy. When I identify there’s a role that I needed extra support. I can I’ve already got those people that I can invite in, if that’s the right time for them. So what we have covered today, the relevant org chart, how you can structure and create those discover those roles and responsibilities that you’re looking for that you need in your business right now. And the future as well. That’s something we’re about to do. This is where we are right now. But what do we look like when were say six months? 12 months down the line?

And what it actually means it’s not about that historical feel of tightness.

Kathy Rast
We’ve already worked out it doesn’t fit into this current day and age. Yeah. So we can move that on retire it. Yeah, that’s right. And it’s exciting. So moving from the idea of ranking being an ordinal thing being 12345 and a hierarchy from that sense, it’s about roles being performed in a collective to achieve a shared outcome.

Nicole Smith
That feels so good.

Kathy Rast
Yeah, it’s like chocolate to the ears. Look at all those cuts.

Nicole Smith
Oh, talking about chocolate, we did chocolate and wine tasting while I was visiting.

It was lovely. It was lovely. And we also went to my South Australia office for lunch. The Artisans.

Kathy Rast
The Artisans in the Barosso. That’s right. It was beautiful. It was beautiful.

Nicole Smith
Fabulous. You’ve heard Kathy. But this has been great and these conversations are so valuable for my continuous development in articulating the words and what I am looking to need and create, and it’s just fun. You make it so easy.

Kathy Rast
You’re welcome.

Nicole Smith
Let’s leave it there. Cha ching. I know this is a little bit of a different format than normal. But I hope that you enjoyed the investigation and discovery of what all about the org charts. And if you’ve got any questions or ideas around how you can see org charts or creating an org chart for your business can be really don’t just create it, have it, do it, just use it using org chat. Let’s go to the end state using an org chat and your business. So once again, you’re off. Yeah, no, I like that using the org chart. Yeah, an org chart in your business pop over and let us know. Because I think this is a conversation. I know, he’s very front of mind in my world. Probably by the time this has gone out, we’ve already developed it. Totally. For The Artisans. So happy to continue to share how that process evolves. But yeah, we’d love to hear from you. So pop on over into the DMS and let us know how you go.

Well there we go. Have a great rest of your day, Kathy.

Nicole Smith
Well, there we go. Thank you so much for joining me today. It’s been such a pleasure having you on board. Have we connected on social jazz? If not, please come on over. Say hi, I’m on all the platforms at the artisan solutions. So I’d really look forward to seeing you over there. And if you enjoy today’s episode, don’t forget to tag me and I’d love it if you could leave a review. And of course, share this with others so others can come and join us next time. All right, then everyone have a fabulous rest of the week and until next time, see you then.