Episode 62

Directing The Dialogue with Dawn Jarvis

April 20th, 2022

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Today I'm chatting with Dawn Jarvis, an in demand public speaker on all things leadership and personal accountability.
We dive into:
  • Women in leadership
  • Taking responsibility and being prepared
  • Dealing with imposter syndrome
  • Controlling what you can control
About Dawn
Dawn is an in demand public speaker on all things leadership and personal accountability. She runs a movement called FLAG, Female Leadership and Growth - providing free webinars and content for current, new and aspiring female leaders.
After moving to Australia at 50, Dawn still runs her business in the UK as well as on Australian soil, specialising in Executive Team Coaching.
As Dawn mentions in the episode, she is halfway through her new secret project, writing a book to share her leadership model in collaboration with an indigenous artist.

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Visit Dawn's website.

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Episode Transcription

Nicole Smith
Welcome to Take Control with Nicole. As business owners, we experience firsthand the fine line between our personal and business lives. During our conversations, we will look at simple hints and tips to create time, reduce, overwhelm, and help you to navigate through your journey to where you want to be. If you're looking for smarter ways to work, and create space and time freedom in your day, then you're in the right place. All right, let's go.

Nicole Smith
Hello, Hello, and thank you for joining us for another episode of Take Control with Nicole. Today, I'm speaking with Dawn Jarvis all about directing the dialogue. Dawn runs a movement called FLAG, which stands for female leadership and growth and provides free webinars and content for current new and aspiring female leaders. Specialising in executive team coaching with businesses in Australia and in the UK. Dawn is a public speaker who touches on all things leadership and personal accountability for self development and accountable self-care. Also, Dawn is currently writing her new book, which is a collaboration with an indigenous artist. Well, hello, Dawn. Welcome to the podcast. So lovely to have you here.

Dawn Jarvis
Thank you for having me. I am delighted to be here.

Nicole Smith
Fabulous. We were just talking, pre pressing the old record about some connections I also have in the UK, and you're based on the Gold Coast. So two beautiful places of the world that you have enjoyed living as well.

Dawn Jarvis
Yeah, I love it here on the Gold Coast. And I'm a surprise, accidental entry to Australia, which I'm happy to tell you more about my accidental entry into Australia.

Nicole Smith
We'd love that. Tell us all about you and your journey so far.

Dawn Jarvis
Yeah, so I'm a mid 50s. In the sort of autumn of my career, I guess depends howlong I want it to go on for. I'm a 30 year experience leader, predominantly in the public sector. Although I did a brief stint in the armed forces and can still claim that I can disassemble and reassemble a submachine gun blindfolded, but don't get much chance to do that these days. And I come from Liverpool in the UK, and four years ago, 2017 ish, 18 ish. I applied for a tender to work in Australia. I'd never heard of the Gold Coast and didn't really know what coming to Australia meant. Never done a flight that long. And so what's the worst thing that can happen? Which is a family motto that we have. And the best thing that was happened was I won the tender. So I flew out to Australia and haven't looked back since.

Nicole Smith
Isn't it wonderful when those things arrive at our doorstep? And you're like, Oh, I could go left or I could go right. And you choose that direction and best decision. Fabulous things come out of those surprises. So

Dawn Jarvis
Yeah, it was a great decision. And I came on my own first and then family joined me briefly and then my 16 year old son in the middle of 2019. He came out and he did his last two years of education here as a six foot five UK floppy haired English boy, must have been harder for him than it was for us.

Nicole Smith
Pretty transitional though that age. Like I know, I moved from Brisbane to Melbourne at that same age, actually. And at first, I was very determined that I was not moving. I'm not leaving the Gold Coast. You don't know what's best for me parents at that time. But now I look back. I love Melbourne. Love it. It's my home now. So yeah. Have you always enjoyed public speaking?

Dawn Jarvis
Yeah, well, I get I you know, I'm a I'm a Myers Briggs off the scale extrovert. Yeah, I've always enjoyed being the centre of attention. And I've always enjoyed being in control. So naturally, I guess, as an organiser, and other people stepping backwards, I would naturally step forward. So I sort of so yes, I enjoy that. I get very nervous still. But that's a good thing. And it's a good thing to keep you on your toes. And one of the things we may talk about later, when I talk about accountable self care is the most important thing for me is to notice what you're feeling at the moment tune into it and think, oh, that's interesting, what am I going to do that then and then just use that to give you the power to move forward. And so I do get a lot of joy from seeing the impact on other people of the things that I talk about.

Nicole Smith
It is a wonderful experience that isn't it when you you do you share something and that twig on the other side of the conversation is like I can see how I can connect that into me, my things, and how impactful that can be for me if I may that small little change or that, you know, new way of thinking moving forward. Yeah, my background, I've got singing, dancing, acting, performing. So it's still even though that it's you come on into a different environment, or you walk onto that stage, and there's that sort of prep isn't there to, I'm here today, this is going to be fabulous. Let's have fun. Have some fun.

Dawn Jarvis
Yeah, I mean, I was doing one of the webinars for female leadership and growth on Wednesday night. And I had, so David Bell from the UK a really eminent figure, as one of the speakers, he couldn't connect to the zoom, then my other speakers had a really bad Wi Fi connection. And you know, it's just that you've maintained the swan pose on camera, and your little legs are going a million miles an hour underneath trying to make everything work. And but you know, afterwards you just think, oh, well, you know, somebody will have got something out of that. And that's the most important thing.

Nicole Smith
Absolutely. It's memorable, right? The tech stuff is, we're in a world of tech now. So it's all of these little things that happen. I remember, I was working for a big event, Ross Trialed investment bank over in London there. And I was responsible for coordinating a big town hall. So all the senior team around the globe coming in, I'd prepped all the tech, I tested it all. Everyone arrives, and bang, right on time, it all fails. And having that composure to be like, okay, we can do this, we got it, we got it, we got it.

Dawn Jarvis
And you know, that's where you differentiate between people who can tune into that panic and use it, and people who become consumed by it, and that's a differentiating factor and learning how to use feelings. One of the things that worries me these days a lot, particularly for younger women, more more so than than guys, but it applies across all genders and none, I guess is the call to ignore negative thinking, just try to push it away. And that's a big mistake in my book, I think noticing what's going on and being interested in it. We call it curiosity in the work I do. So oh, that's it. If I keep doing that thing, what's going to happen? I know what's going to happen, because I've done that before. So what am I other choices? What can I choose to do differently in this moment? And I mean, gosh, that sounds easy. It's a mastery of that moment. It's that Deepak Chopra calls it the gap capitalising on the gap, and it's millisecond. But if you know it, at least if you know it's there, at least if you're mindful of it, you can give it a good go and practice it and take charge of that energy that this panic or this disruption gives you rather than letting it control you.

Nicole Smith
Yeah, I know, I've been on both sides of that before. Early on in my career, it's that oh, no, I'm gonna get in trouble. Like, I can't No rah, rah, rah, rah rah. Whereas now I'm very much on the same bandwagon in the curiosity. It's like, oh, okay, well, what's going on here? What does this mean? What can I learn from this? How do I take that next step to going forward? So in your FLAG community, can you tell me a little bit more about or share with us a little bit more about that and sort of who's in there and not people but types of people who,

Dawn Jarvis
Again, I was a reluctant webinar host, my business partner in the UK, her world fell apart on the 23rd of March when they went into lockdown, because she's a you know, speaker in America and all over the place. So she said, I'm going to do some free leadership webinars, will you co-host with me? And I said, oh, no, I don't think that's my bag. This will blow over this hair pandemic thing. And then lo and behold, she persuaded me to co-host and I thought at the time, well, I'll give it a go on my own. I've always wanted to do something for women and been repelled by it. It's a strange polarised viewpoint, that half of it, I don't like the idea of separate and different. And I realise particularly I might say in Australia, the need I have noticed a higher level of underlying sexism, misogyny in the corporate world than there is in the UK and UK is not perfect. I'm not by no means am I saying that. I just noticed a different level. So I said to my daughter, who's very sensible at 23 I'm thinking to doing this but I'm worried people aren't calm. And she said I'll put your big girl pants on mother get a grip. If people don't come don't do it again. If the come they come and out of the mouths of babes. I'll give it a go.

Nicole Smith
I love it. It's just so logical. It's like well, yeah, of course.

Dawn Jarvis
When you're in the know, which is why coaching is so great, isn't something you can't see clearly and you just need to ask you a question. So I liked FLAG because it sort of stick your FLAG at the top of the man imagery in my mind and female leadership and growth so I'll put on the first a series of six I was going for. I curated the content Self-Care managing up, imposter syndrome, all the usual things using your power that you might expect. And I went with a model of getting two guest speakers on one from Australia, one from the UK on each session and the first webinar, we had almost 200 people signed up overnight. And I think it was, you know, pandemic kind of lockdown terror. Everybody wanted to make a connection. And it just grew from there, really. So the first year was specific subject matter content things. And then our partners then to create a one page of the content that we put on the website, and people can then download it later. So 2021, I reduced the membership, a bit of the of the webinars, because I had one person on and we used a process called turning points, you said sliding doors or moments earlier. And it's a similar thing, what as a leader, what are the turning points in your life. People, places, events, etc, that have caused you to be the leader you are now and still share which of that is helpful, or not helpful still. So we've got some fantastic speakers on and they did full interview with me on the turning points. And we had such a range of things. I had a brilliant chair of a health care organisation in the UK, a hit the only Muslim chair, hijab wearing woman who's done loads of brilliant things. And one of her turning points is when our brother was killed in a racist attack in a school yard in Bradford in the UK. And you know, they were all like that in different ways. We cried. It was just phenomenal. So we decided to then pull stories together and release a book on International Women's Day this year, which so I'm already published, despite the book I'm working on, if you count me publishing that, and it was called Inspiring Women, Inspiring Women. And it's 21 stories from the women that we interviewed, including mine and Diana business partners is in there as well. And we sell in it for the Malala Fund, which is if anybody knows who Malala is, they'll know what that means. And her strapline is creating a world where all girls can learn and lead. And I mean, what was more aligned to my purpose than that rarely. So we've sold a good number of them. And we're going to do one every six months, because we've got so many stories. So this year, I decided to open the membership up to men, because I was still a bit niggly about this separation. And it's been really interesting, I put a call out to my network on Tuesday saying please can people come because my online signups just plummeted. I mean I still had 20 people, that's okay. And the people that were on there, thought it was a phenomenal content, we did the one pager etc. But you know, sometimes you just need to now reassess whether ever done the right thing or b actually are free webinars, a thing that were brilliant in the pandemic, and now we're moving out of it, do I just need a different direction. But I'm pleased with the content that we've developed, I've started to use that now in paid internal female leadership development programmes, which I'm being commissioned for, which is great. I'm pleased with the network I've created. And the women who keep in touch with me all the time, and I'm really pleased with the Malala Fund, the book will be a legacy that will live on afterwards. So I'm sort of at a turning point now about what direction I go with it. That's, that's cool. I'm happy to sit with that a while and let it develop.

Nicole Smith
Yeah, COVID's this funny time, I think that we've all gone through I know, I started my business at the start of 2020. With all beautiful ambitions to do all the fabulous things and COVID. And you talk about that sliding door moment, I could have easily retreated and gone back to employed work very easily. But I was in that moment, knowing why I was on this journey to create the business that I'm continuing to build. And I was there I was determined that this is the direction I was going to go in. So from that I found those avenues of connection was a massive one for me in that 2020 year, going out to my networks, finding who my people were and were not because that's also very important. And building those communities and networks and confidence in myself to step into when you own your own business City is a leadership role. And finding those that you know that that strength and power to do that. I will just mention we are going to pop the link to your book that you just mentioned there in the show notes. So please pop over and have a look because that sounds like, I love stories. And especially from empowered women who have gone through what they've gone through and confident to share so please pop over and have a, check it out. Support their cause, yeah, wonderful, amazing community. It sounds like you're building there as well. And the content.

Dawn Jarvis
Yeah. So yeah, look, if people follow that link, they'll there'll be just free download the one pages that we've done on all the content. And feel free to share it, I'm really generous with the content that we provide, because one of my purposes is to leave a legacy of just good stuff other people can use that I found.

Nicole Smith
I love that. So as part of your webinars and all of the content that you're creating, you mentioned about that personal accountability for self development, I'd love you to share a little bit more about what you do there.

Dawn Jarvis
Yeah, so I mean, in my time, in corporate, I've done pretty much every senior role going from Chief Exec to Chief People Officer to director of this or that or the other, right. And so you have anything from 10 to 10,000 people reporting to you. And they're busy roles, people tend, if you've not worked in a public sector, people tend to have a misconception that, you know, you just tying fabulous bureaucratic bows and enjoying yourself all day. You know, there tough jobs, big societal change issues that you're faced with. And so you're busy. As a leader, I've always found that the people I've, rightly or wrongly, had more of a connection with are the people that made my life easier for me when the reports to me. So if they're prepared for their one to ones, and I usually would in my work with them, give them a template, their job to sort it all out and send it to me the day before. So I know what we're going to talk about

Nicole Smith
love a template you're talking to

Dawn Jarvis
And same I felt with development as a leader then people who came to me and said, right, this is my annual performance review millions of names for it, or whatever it is. And here's what I think I've done well, here's where I think, you know, needing some development, I've had a look at this development, and I think I'm going to do it, what do you think. I just be blown away by their self actualization approach, I guess. And I would normally just go, Yeah, fine. Okay, let's let's do it, you know, assuming it met all the needs of the business, etc. And I think I learned from that, by being a good employee, shall we call it are a good organisational citizen. So when I was reporting to the chief exec, you can see the pressure there under. So you then go prepared and depends on what kind of person you reporting to. If you don't go prepared, you can see that the disappointment or frustration in them, oh, come on, you know, take some responsibility for yourself. And yeah, when I've led big HR departments, and you get the call, often, well, if only HR would do more of this, or put more of this on, or if they put the courses on at the right time, I'd be able to go and it's a constant frustration to me in the back of my mind. And what I've started to then do, now that I'm coaching other people with their development, and I do loads and mentoring of others, is really challeng people to say, it might be so that you think your organisation should be better at this, you think your boss should be a better boss, you think that might all be true? And I don't know. So who am I to say it isn't? And rather than bought, of course, and what are you going to do? What are you going to take responsibility for? What can you go already prepared with and say, I think I need to develop in this area, I'm going to do this, okay, and sort of almost not wait for an answer. And that's worked for me personally, taking charge of my own development, even now working for myself. Every year, I've got a development plan, I sign off with myself on my own template. And, you know, I've got people who work with me now in the business, and they've all got development plans, which I made their responsibility, you know, and it's their responsibility to make sure we have one to ones as well as it's mine. It shouldn't all sit on my shoulders, I think.

Nicole Smith
Yeah, I totally agree with that. Because I've worked in the big corporate worlds and small SME businesses and the latest, they've got a lot going on, especially if they're a leader of their own business, you know, or they're in charge of all the facets of that, and coming in and supporting somebody at that level, or whatever the level might be. Our roles is to support them to do their job the best way they can. And I've always taken that forward approach of being I was the over prepared one. It's like, I appreciate your time, we've got this window, dot point, this is what we're going to do. This is what I need from you. What do you need from me that exchange also had the personal stuff hey, how you doing and stuff. But as well as the learning, you know, I'm the one that knows where I am with my skill set and my experience and where I want to improve. So if I find that thing that fits that box, give the reason give the pricing of course, that sort of exchange or that sell is is not difficult. Because the leader doesn't have to do that research nor do they really probably want to do the research.

Dawn Jarvis
And what they want to be able to do is when they're challenged by their boss, is report up that all their fabulous people have got a development plan. And so I do think our job is to make life easier for our leaders. And it's one of the, one of the top tips on the content for the managing up session that we do on FLAG. So how do you manage, you know, make sure that you are prepared, and you know, you're good at that. That's a skill in itself

Nicole Smith
Makes everyone's life more enjoyable, really. I've experienced that personally, where I've had people reporting to me and they're not organised, it's heavy. It's heavy, because you feel like you're holding the weight of everyone.

Dawn Jarvis
Yeah. And I also think it's worth probably the sidebar to that is, there'll be some people listening to this, who think, yeah, but maybe, maybe they won't think I'm good enough to do that, course maybe they don't think I'm ready. And you know, when you boil all that back down, that's about self confidence and self esteem in ourselves. And like I said earlier, notice that, thinking in yourself, and if it's showing up, it's true for you at the moment, but what's that telling you? And therefore, what's that telling you your development needs to be?

Nicole Smith
Ah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, confidence is something that even at every stage of our career, our journey, we hit that moment, and it's I think it's just an ongoing development, isn't it with your confidence?

Dawn Jarvis
I mean, my daughter said to me the other day, when does this imposter syndrome and self doubt thing go away, mum, and I went, oh, well, bad news - it doesn't. I still suffer it on a daily basis. Good news it, the older you get, you care less about what other people think of you. And you have learned the skills to shortcut the solution. Yeah, really. And so it's, it's a lifelong journey of mastery of those skills that you actively have to draw down every time it happens to you, because it's still going to happen. And she went, Oh, I thought you're gonna tell me it was like 30 was the magic number something.

Nicole Smith
There's this miracle cure, that if you do these five steps, you will have an imposter syndrome no more. If only but I think every journey like every moment we come to we learn something from it. So it's good to go through those little transitions between the where I am now to where I'm going. And you know, taking that bigger leap, that bigger step towards you know, that next part of wherever you're moving to. Now, as we've talked about those sort of when you get up to those leadership roles, or you know, running your own business, it can be busy. There's lots of things, lots of you know, things going on self-care is something you know, I talk about a bit as well, making sure we can structure our weeks, our days, our business, my whole world is about foundations of business to to assist this as you grow and you know, you build your big. This is something that you talk about with your community as well, that accountability of self care.

Dawn Jarvis
Yeah, so I run these sessions, yes, in the FLAG group. And also in the corporate world, we run the whole package is called Accountable Self-Care Sessions. And they started in the NHS when the NHS because I'm an ex NHS, executive and board member in the hospital. So I've got a lot connections still in the UK. And they, the staff on the COVID wards were really, really struggling. So a little bit of a sad moment. So they were 28 bedded wards every single day, they were shipping out 22 people off to the place where you don't come back from and ship in another 22 people to fill those beds every day for months, and months and months. So they approached us and asked us to put together some short one hour packages, because they couldn't take a lot of time off, to help people tune in to boost their self care. So it was Trauma Recovery, PTSD based lots of kind of in depth stuff. But essentially, when it all boils down to it, the methodology we used was what's a worked really well rehearse model that speaks to this thing in the world of work. What's some real stories we can tell you about how this works in real life. What are some questions you can ask yourself? And what are three top tips we'll leave you with? So we pulled together the top five models that we work with all the time, and then we told them about the model. We told them the story, we told them the tips and we got them to ask themselves some questions. Two models out of all of those I am constantly asked about and talk about all the time our our modification of Stephen Covey's locus of control. So what can you control? What can't you control? And we settled on using that because one of the women was having a big old rant about lockdowns and Boris Johnson and this that and the other was in the UK and we just let her go for minutes minutes in this session. And she said, and I all my patients can't come into that anymore, I can't see my grandchildren we were. And at the end I just said, so whatever her name was, what of that is in your control to do anything about and she went, nothing. I said, okay, so what is in control. And pretty much I subscribe to the theory that there's only three things and you control what comes out of your mouth. So or you show up what you put into your mouth, or what you consume. So whether you're binge on Netflix, or play pet rescue, that might reveal the guilty secret. And if you wear a uniform, or don't wear a uniform, what you wear at work the rest of it, yeah, it's not really in your control, actually. So we use that a lot. And one of the massive top tips that works all the time, especially if you're a member of the 3am club where you wake up in the middle of night and then can't get back to sleep, is just write on a piece of paper, draw a line down the middle, on one side, put can control on the other side, put can't control and I guarantee you, what you can control will be a tiny, tiny little list. And it helps to just put it in perspective. That's the first one. The second model that we use a lot is Stewart's Ladder of Accountability. And it's a beautiful picture, and I'm happy to share the link where people can find the picture from two,

Nicole Smith
That's be wonderful,

Dawn Jarvis
A tipping point in the middle, and the bottom. And these are Stuart's words, but I do subscribe to them the bottom set of behaviours, are victim behaviours, and top set of behaviours or accountable behaviours. So the question to ask yourself is when things happen to me that the world throws my way, how do I show up? Am I saying things like, well, if only they do this if I haven't got enough resources of this kind to deal with it? Or I'll just wait and see what happens. And they're in the bottom half their victim behaviours, if you if you acknowledge reality. So if you've got home in your car, and you're the only one who drives this car, and there are 10 cherry ripe wrappers in the car, you're the one that's leaving the cherry ripe wrappers right. Hopefully, you haven't eaten the rapids. But so you have to own the moment. And the reason why we sell them this model is one of the nurses on COVID Ward, we were talking to this model, and she, we it's into interactive sessions. She said, oh Dawn that's, that's me. So I said, I'll tell you a story if you feel open to it. And she said, I was getting home every night from this ward 13 hours a day in full PPE and I was opening a bottle of red wine or maybe more than one. And then I was going back to work the next day, and putting the bottles in the recycling every night. And she had about three months in my six year old said to me, mummy, I don't like you very much at the moment, because you're not being nice to me or daddy and I would just like my old mummy back. And that was her accountability moment. She didn't quite stop drinking there and then but she put the bottles on a kitchen bench and took a photograph of it. And she sent me the photo which I used with her permission now in the slides for the sessions. And that was a massive wake up call. So then the rest of, the other part of the accountability model top half is acknowledge reality, own it, you know, admit that it's you and then do something about it, make a plan, make the first step. And I think, I suppose what I'm saying with kindness, in the way that I present the accountable care stuff is. It's an approach waiting for someone else to do something for you, but on this earth no matter who we love and how big and fabulous our family and friendship circle is,we are it, we are responsible for ourselves. And you know, Beyonce said it's okay to wallow for a week. So I'm going with that if it's fine for her, it's fine for me. But that if I go two days without getting up for my morning run, I am asking myself a serious question about whether my body is saying don't run or I'm just convincing myself that I shouldn't do it because it's a great excuse. And I'm back again to the same theme I think is really listen to what you're saying yourself and and challenge it and tune into what you really want

Nicole Smith
It's a powerful message really isn't it, that we are our controllers of the world who don't know we use the word control, we're the guides of our world and knowing that might be at this moment feel a little bit ahh, but what are we actually pushing downwards rather than becoming aware and acknowledging the thing? And finding a way to take that step forward to you know, out to discover wherever you're going. So yeah, very, I love those both of those methodologies are easy to apply, which is most important because you can come across some things that it's a bit hard to comprehend. In a, especially when you are going through those, like imagine the NHS workers going through that their limit of space to absorb anything else it's would be minute. Whereas something along those lines, is very simple. I love the four step you know this, that, this, pretty easy to acknowledge, absorb, apply. And then you know transition into wherever you're going. And I imagine there's was some quite positive stories of outcomes when people apply that into their world.

Nicole Smith
Hey, they're just interrupting this episode to share with you a guide that you are going to want to explore. Are you a clickup user at the moment or have you been sitting on the fence and hearing me talk about it each and every week and just wondering, what is the next step to take? Well, I've created a guide that's going to support you on your journey to really design your clickup spaces, be able to create those and then connect them into the way that your business operates each and every day. My community have told me that this guide has been a game changer in the way that they really look at their clickup workspaces, and operate each and every day. And you can access it as well. So pop on over to my website, theartisans.com.au\freebies, and access the action takers guide to click up, how fabulous that you know, you're ready to evolve your clickup journey, you're ready to move from where you are right now, to where you have always known you want to be. Reach out, let me know, I love to hear all about your journey in clickup. So I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Dawn Jarvis
Oh, yeah, I mean, it's just joyous to hear people's feedback. And we've just been commissioned again to do another round and a whole load of deeper sessions for the NHS, they're starting in July, we're just doing some research on the impact of the moment. And I've just run them for the whole of the Gold Coast City Council too so two one hour sessions for them. They wanted it even shorter. So we packed the five models into one hour sessions. And yeah, hearing how it's impacted people makes the job worthwhile.

Nicole Smith
Yeah, just on councils and training and or just businesses and training, I know that I've experienced it myself, there are these things that you need to go through and do. And a lot of the time you're attending these things to tick and flick right, there's no actual personal impact that you get, or something like that, regardless of where you are, is really impactful. So if you are listening, and you know anyone over in that space reach out because the sounds like it would be a really engaging and worthwhile experience for your employees or your businesses to outcome, to go through.

Dawn Jarvis
So the Gold Coast City Council because there was so many of them. We did it on a almost like a lecture on teams. So they had hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people just on one session. So it's pretty low cost when you do it like that for your for your business.

Nicole Smith
Yeah, absolutely. Wow love all that. I'm going to go back and listen to this again, and be like, oh, yes, I'm gonna take some of this and embed it into my world as well. Now, I would love to know, or love you to share a little bit about your new book, if you're able, or is it a little bit top secret still?

Dawn Jarvis
Well, you know, I'm sure people listening won't tell anybody. But no, it's not that top secret. I'm really proud of this actually, I had a book deal when I was, when we're in the UK about 10 years ago, a long time ago, I created my own team coaching and team leadership model. I've been coaching teams for many years. And the book deal was to write a book on that model. And you know, you can get so busy working in your business that you don't have the time you don't make the time, you're worried about the next contract coming in so you keep working and working. And I've just never got around to it. It's a shame. But the universe has a way of presenting things for you to do at the right time, you're supposed to do them so, entered Australia. And the more I reflected on the model that I've created, and the more I found out about the original owners of the land on which I'm working, the more I felt that there was a real holistic synergy between the two things and holistics an overused word, but in this context, I think it's a word I'm going to stick with. So I reached out, I spent a long time a couple of years trying to plug into Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander community groups and councils. And I don't know if I wasn't asking the right questions, or I just wasn't landing, wasn't getting anywhere. And fortuitously again, the universe working in its beautiful way. I was walking along Coolangatta forshore one Sunday morning, and there was a guy selling little paintings, and they were stunning. So I had a chat to him and I said, I'm writing a book, I'm after somebody to do the artwork are you interested? He said, Yeah, I'm interested. Yeah, whatever. So we exchanged phone numbers, and we met up for coffee. Two hours later, we were still talking. We got on like a house on fire. And he was just a beautiful person. I showed him the weird Canva graphic that I'd hamfisted from of my model. And he went, oh, yeah, that looks like a tribe with a load of clams around the edge. And he drew in my notebook, a sketch. And I was like, That's it. That's exactly what I'm after you. Okay, well, I'll paint that. So we met a few more times, he found out a bit more about me, about what I was talking about. And then over Christmas, just this Christmas, maybe the 20th of December, I went to his house, to see the paint, and it's 1.5 by 1.2 metres. Wow. And it's just stunning. And he called it the seven clams, the paintings called. And I'd already written a lot of the book, and, and he dictated a story to me about, the models called the stellar model. So he dictated, he spoke a story to me about the spirit of stellar appearing to the elders of this tribe, and mentoring them about how to run the tribe more effectively, and get the team the tribes, the different clans etc, working together for the sustainability of the tribe and the people. So I wrote down, wrote it all or went back to him, and read it back out to him. It'll really like his reading and writing too much. So we went in that way. And he started crying. And I said, oh what have I done, he said, oh Dawn, it's like the spirits of my people were living within you, when you wrote this, it couldn't have been more accurate, it couldn't have been more beautifully written. I was like, Oh, that's so beautiful. I'm so happy. So relieved, I haven't upset him or offended him in some way. And so we've, I'd already, I paid him for the painting. So I bought the painting and the rights to use the picture, and then got my lawyers to find someone to represent him, separate from me, and draw up a contract so that any profits in the book were split 50/50. Because without him, I wouldn't have gone the way, the direction I've gone with the book. So the spirit of stellar story is about, a chapter, it's about 20 pages. The other many 100 pages are if leading vulnerably, or leading kindly or leading strategically means this for the elders of this tribe. What does it mean in the real world, here's some stories about how not to do it. Here's some stories about how to do it. Here's some models we use, it can help you a bit like a talk to you about the other work we do. Here's a model, here's how to simply explain it, here's some good stories. And here's what you might like to do in the real hectic world where everything doesn't go so well. Because I've often found with a lot of leadership books, they're quite kind of surreal in the pristine world, they speak to the operating in and, you know, so I'm about 60,000 words into it. Now, it's with a couple of publishers who I haven't decided which one I'm going to go with. But, you know, I'm in the negotiation stage at the moment and the conclusion phase. So I think by the end of the year, it will probably be out, but people can on the website, there's a whole section on the stellar model and the picture that Eddie, who now has adopted his full original name of Munu Wuthuga Dardakiin because he said working with me is given the confidence to go fully into his art, his healing, his past to eldership. So couldn't be more pleased with our collaboration. It's just beautiful.

Nicole Smith
Getting tingle. Oh, how much again, I am very much about the universe brings in things at the right time taking that walk on that day alone, and you know, seeing his artwork, feeling inspired to walk over and have a conversation. It's just wow, that sounds amazing.

Dawn Jarvis
Yeah, it's a it's been a brilliant experience. And you know, I think after the couple years that we've been through what does strike me is, people are, people are seeking deep connections with you know, the history of mankind and why we're here at all and what on earth are we we doing to ourselves on a daily basis now. Just I love the way that between us, Munu and I have been able to bring that connection to the modern day corporate well so the book the name of the book, I don't think I've said that is Leading Corporate Clans.

Nicole Smith
Yes, yep. Yeah. How exciting. Oh, yeah, please share when it's all live and out there in the world because that's something I would be interested to, to read and connect in with as well and many corporate people that sounds ideal to have the storytelling element as well. We all love a story and how that can apply to our world. So oh, how exciting. Congratulations. So cool. Well, we're at the point of the conversation that we have three questions that we ask our guests. So I'd love to invite you to partake, if you're ready and raring to go. What is your go-to app that creates ease in your day?

Dawn Jarvis
Well, I've probably got three, the third one might come up later. So I'm going to go with two if I have your permission to do that,

Nicole Smith
Absolutely. Please do.

Dawn Jarvis
I've got Active, which is my chosen fitness app. Yeah. And I've got my Weight Watchers. And you might say, why did they create ease in your day, so I've taken the liberty that ease about two years ago, I lost 30 kilos. And that was a great benefit of coming to Australia, because it's an outdoorsy life more than UK. And I've kept it off ever since enough. And, and it's part of my whole mental self care routine, as well as a physical self care routine. So if I go for a run in the morning, and you know, I've got these beautiful American guys in my ear telling me I'm fabulous. And you know that, that sets me up to the day. And if I gently, I'm not obsessed with it, keep a track of my, you know, eating habits, sleeping habits, go to Weight Watchers regularly, still check in, I can keep my world calm and sane and stable, which allows me to do good work for other people. So they make my day, fill my day with ease, because it fills my cup up and my oxygen tanks on first. So then I can help other people.

Nicole Smith
You've just said, my, I've got my business cards, that's one of my quotes on the back and make sure you apply your oxygen mask first. And whatever that means to you as an individual. It's the same thing for you those apps, that's fabulous. Because you know that once you've done those things, you can check in with yourself and be like, okay, I can breathe. I've got it under control. It's all good. Let's let's move to the next. Ah, fabulous. I love asking that question. Because you never know what you're going to get some people go directly to like the doing type apps, but thank you for sharing that. That's great. That's really good. Okay, next one. Are you an online or paper to-do lists lover?

Dawn Jarvis
I am both

Nicole Smith
You're a hybrid.

Dawn Jarvis
Yeah. So for work we use to-do, Microsoft to-do all the time. It's brilliant. And Michelle and I use that on a daily basis. She's my Operations Coordinator. And so is our Asana. You know, we hand off to each other in that just by labelling with our names, we also use Alexa at home the, oh I've just said out loud, she might now talk to, no she's being quiet. So we tell her what we want on shopping lists and all that kind of thing. I lovee a beautiful book you know, and I can't resist always having a beautifully constructed notebook with me and a beautiful pen. You know, my business partner has gone over to remarkable and I love the look of it. But I'm just thinking, I don't know if I could get rid of my books.

Nicole Smith
There is something about a beautiful notebook and pen, just the the experience of using it. It being the feel the touch the the way that it runs across the paper. It's just yeah, I'm with you on that as well. So, love a hybrid. Many of my guests are hybrids, I myself am also a hybrid. So it's a beautiful place to be. And finally, what would you do if you created more space in your world?

Dawn Jarvis
Well, I travel yeah, everybody must say that in the last few years, my daughter and, I haven't seen my eldest for two years. So I would travel, but in the absence of travel at the moment, I would, more outdoors. Although I do a lot of a lot of the outdoors in resilience terms, outdoors energy for me really gives me boost. I love reading. You know, I'm a voracious reader. So if I had more time I would just be outdoors reading all the time.

Nicole Smith
Imagine sitting on a sun lounger and or you know, surrounded by beautiful nature as you walk. Yeah. Perfect. Well, thank you so much for joining me today. I've loved this conversation. It's really fabulous. It's one thing that I do love about hosting this podcast is chatting with people that I may not have come across in the just general day to day world and your programme, your book that's coming out that now already out and at the end of the year, all of that is just very interested in at all so

Dawn Jarvis
Thank you, for having me, it's been a joyous experience

Nicole Smith
Pleasure! Now before we leave, we need to share where our community can connect with you where abouts are you, where do you hang out online?

Dawn Jarvis
So I have three handouts spaces online. I have Dawn Jarvis on LinkedIn. I have @dawnyjarv on Twitter, and I have @dawnjarrvispeopleandod, on Instagram. Fabulous. Thank you so much. We'll pop all those details in the show notes. Also the links to the other areas that we've mentioned throughout the conversation. And just finally, thank you again for joining me today on the podcast.

Dawn Jarvis
You are welcome. Thank you for having me,

Nicole Smith
Everybody who'slistening, have a wonderful rest of your day and enjoy creating space and time freedom by now.

Nicole Smith
Well, there we go. Thank you so much for joining me today. It's been such a pleasure having you on board. Have we connected on socials yet? If not, please come on over say hi, I'm on all the platforms @theartisansolutions. So I'd really look forward to seeing you over there. And if you enjoy today's episode, don't forget to tag me and I'd love it if you could leave a review. And of course share this with others so others can come and join us next time. All right, then everyone have a fabulous rest of the week and until next time, see you then.


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Acknowledgement of Country

We acknowledge the Traditional Owners of the land on which we work and live. We pay our respects to Elders past, present and emerging. We celebrate the stories, culture and traditions of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Elders of all communities who also work and live on this land.