Episode 99

Creating A Business of Your Design with Heinna Reyes

January 25th, 2023

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Heinna Reyes
So my name is Heinna. I am an OBM, a mentor and I love it. Yes, we have known each other for a bit now. And you know, when I first started in the online space, I think well, yeah, when we first met, I started off as a VA and I said, Nicole, this we’re doing and, you know, obviously we did the ClickUp and I swear that has changed my life. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. But yeah, so I come into the space and I definitely had created OBM Assembly to where I wanted a space for where I needed at that time when I was transitioning or transforming into an OBM because a lot of people, I mean, not a lot of people, just for myself, I was like can I should I you know, be an online business manager, you know, because online space is such, it’s a free thing to be able to you get to create, you know, who you are what you want to be, in the sense of the how exciting that is, that can be a little bit scary as well. And so I wanted to have a space for, you know, others who wants to be an online business manager to kind of really step into because I think the way we think as an online business manager, I just say in more in the back operations were like, this has to be structured, you know, everything has to line up, everything has to be ABCDEFG. But in business, especially online, it’s not like that, you know, you get to create yourself. And I think stepping in from when I was in corporate was like, okay, these are all the processes, and this is who you are, and this is your title. That’s it, but you’re expected to do 20 other million things, you know, however an online space, you can do that for yourself and for others, but it’s more like giving yourself the freedom and the authority like yes, I can do this. I am an online business manager and I do ABCDEFG and I don’t have to be set into the what quote unquote you know, the corporate world or what people think an online business manager should be because especially if you have a bigger and brighter ideas that’s it not taking a premium not say others don’t but everybody has their own ideas. Everybody flowed together and I think when you go into your own business, you get to choose who to work with what you know how you work. So it’s again very different from what you’re told back into your quote unquote, corporate days and stepping into OBM self is a big deal for me because you don’t have to follow me I guess there’s a guideline, don’t get me wrong there’s things that you need to do. Like, we’ve got to get abs, there’s things that you’d have to do. But like everything else, when you hit play for your business, you get to show who you are, you know, it’s your style to be to be more than anything.

Nicole Smith
100%. Such an important role having an OBM in your world and being able to create a business that is for you, and supports you, and the way that you love to work. I think we’ve had these conversations before about the old corporate land. That’s your box. Don’t get out too much. That’s your role title, these are your responsibilities, but I love that how you said, and do all the other things, the operations and fix it mode, action takers, we tend to do attract all the questions. And how can you do this?

Heinna Reyes
I’ll fix it. Don’t worry about it. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That’s so true.

Nicole Smith
It is wonderful to be able to help and support new humans as they’re coming to discover what their businesses are going to look for them. What a privileged position to be in and help and support other OBMs.

Heinna Reyes
I think that’s what is because again, we’re more you know, when you step outside of the, you know, because of corporate word, because it’s just like, what is the job title for this? Because that’s what people typically say, like, what is my job title is a business owner. But I think when you come in on the space, you’re like, oh, there is no title. I mean, there is no job description. I mean, there’s a guideline, what you need to do what you need to serve. But I think even when I talk about OBM, and they’re like, oh, what is that? You have to really think about as an online business manager, you’re not just, there’s so many things you could do, you could do it to where you have a team and you manage a client, or you manage the client and their team. Or is it that there’s a specific, you know, programme or specific system that you’re going to manage for them, because just one system is just like a whole tackle, like a job description within itself, when things are happening in your business. Or it could just be like a one big project, one off project. So there’s so many things that you can do as an online business manager, but I think, because when people think just manager, they think it’s just like, one side, no you can literally be who you want to be and share with that, of what a what you’re good at and b what you want to do as well. You know, so, you know, hand in hand.

Nicole Smith
Yeah, 100%, in my mind, just did a thing when you have left, the systems are a whole thing in itself. 100%. And what I discovered in where I play, is when our clients discover that something is a possible thing and they’re like, oh, oh, I want that. I know, I know, we got that, but we need to let’s focus here, I’m gonna get those foundations, right. And then we’re going to build on that and enhance and iterate it to that next step and being on that journey with your clients, especially in the space that I don’t know, OBM is a beautiful experience when you’ve got that relationship working so well together. And you can have those conversations that a bit like, yes, but yes, and yeah, we’ll think about it.

Heinna Reyes
Especially when you find and it goes both ways. If you find a client that you know, trusts you really like, okay, here, you know, Kate OBM, you’re right, I need to just step it back and just wait, you know, because when we’re as business owners, we get super, super excited, you know, we’re just like, yeah, I want to make, I want things shooting off the window, and blah, blah, blah, all these things, but vice versa, as an OBM you have to make sure that you understand what your clients clauses are well, as well, you know, and I think you said like, open communication, like you said, yes, however, or yes, and you know, or yes, but as an OBM you are finding that balance. I mean, same with anything, not everybody can do OBM but at the same time, not everybody can you do marketing because I mean, me and marketing are probably not friends. We’re acquaintances again, you but you need it for your business, you know, and so, it’s like, even with this as an OBM, people forget that you can do everything. So having somebody that you trust and really can confide in, but like, because even this, like I’ve talked to other OBMs and they’re like, I feel like I’m a therapist. So it’s like, yeah, a little bit because, you know, you, you have to kind of understand where they’re coming from because if this week is not energy, there’s no energy to do anything. I’m not going to give my client 10 things that they need to do, you know, I’m going to be like, alright, you know what, maybe this one day, but I’ll leave the other line in for next week or next month or something here.

Nicole Smith
That’s a really key message. Especially if you’re you know, like me, right. So I am quite bubbly and chirpy and happy and everything most of the time. Because sometimes like this week in particular, there’s been a bit of a challenge. So I’ve been very open with my OBM, Chloe, and I’m like, hey, this is a week. And she’s like, okay, cool. I said, what is the minimum you need from me this week as in me asking her what do you need from me. Because it is a two way relationship with anything that you’re doing. Right?

Heinna Reyes
Yeah, yeah, correct. Correct. Yeah, yeah, no, definitely. And I think that’s why approaching things and not like being flexible. Like I said, why you don’t want to be that cookie cutter is like, Oh, well, this week, we were with another robot like, well, this week, we were suppsed to get 20 things done. Sorry, I don’t care about your feelings like no, you have to understand you’d have to be flexible. You have to, you know and work from you know, because mostly because if you’re OBM is flat out, and if they’re honest enough to be like, hey, I know, we were supposed to get these, you know, things done this week however, can we push this back? It’s like, yeah, sure, you know, and having that open relationship, and because you know, how you will need to work and you know, how much you can handle. You know, how much your client can handle. It’s such an easier process, like, you don’t have to be like, because you could be scared of your OBM too because I’m happy for her like, oh, sorry. And it’s like, it’s okay. Like, they’re like, Okay, cool. Like you get it, it’s, I guess, that’s like more in the beginning phase. But vice versa. Like, if I’m too scared to tell my clients being like, actually, I haven’t done that yet and it’s just like, they’re like, and you think they’re gonna, like explode on you or they just go, it’s like, I didn’t have time to answer that either. And you’re like, Oh, cool. Like, we’re good to go. That makes it so much easier. Because you know, how you work and you know how your mind works.

Nicole Smith
And I think you know, when you are starting out in business, regardless of where you are, whatever industry you’re in, you want clients like, yes, there’s a desire to be successful. Anybody who comes across my door then all of a sudden, you realise actually, some of these humans really aren’t my humans. Then you fall into this zone of I’m attracting my humans. We’re coming in and we’re connecting and we understand on a human level, because ultimately, we just want human looking at another human. We have different skill sets that compliment each other. That’s how we found each other. So that’s fabulous lesson, and it is one that we do have to go through ourselves as much as we can share this with others, isn’t it? Have you seen that with your with your humans as well?

Heinna Reyes
Yeah. I mean, I think the best way I can say without sounding like, oh, my gosh, the best ways is that, like, I’ve had clients where it was just because again, same thing, I was like, well, I need a client, like we need somebody and did it and I’ve gotten screwed over, I guess that’s the best way to say it. And I was like, I will never ever do that again. You know, I’ve never ever put myself in that position. Because I took something because I was like, and I’m not saying they did it on purpose. I don’t know if they did or not. But I wouldn’t, because I knew I didn’t really want to, but I was like, no, I need a client and stuff. I had to really learn and pull myself and understand who I want to work with why you want to work with these people. And that’s why I tried to take you say the whole lot because it’s some people might be for you. And some people might not even if that somebody that is gonna pay me out out 20 grand a month, why not? But if I don’t like that, not that I’m gonna like, but if we don’t connect, I’m not going to take it, I’d rather work with the people that, you know, that can give what you know, obviously a good exchange energy exchange with us, even if it’s not 20 grand, because how much time I’ve wasted working with others that I didn’t want to and not just an OBM I mean that just as an online space, but like in, you know, in a job job. It was because I was like, oh, I need the money. It’s just again, that’s a whole nother that we could talk about. But it was just yeah, that’s why I want to share that whole who do you want to serve? Who are you as a business owner, because ultimately, you don’t want to waste more time. Like, I feel like I’ve wasted so much time because I wasn’t planning to do this, because that’s what we know. That was the thing that everybody says that you need to do. But I needed to find my flow. And now that I’m finding or that I’ve gotten so close to it, I want to share that with others, you know, others to feel that and not have to go through that roller coaster to go through.

Nicole Smith
I talk about it as evidence collecting. Because every experience that we’ve had from all the way through to childhood all the way right, we’ve had lessons and we’ve collected little bits of evidence about what we like and what we don’t want to have in our in our world and being able to support people to not shortcut but give them a little bit of evidence already from self experience is a fabulous space to to play in. Before we dive in a little bit deeper, because I know it was just this is coming out in January. So Happy New Year, everyone. Happy New Year. And I know that there’ll be some people that have done some reassessing over the Christmas break of how their business looks and what they actually need in regards to support. And there’ll be the question, Do I need a VA? Or do I need an OBM? So I’d love if you could.

Heinna Reyes
I love this question.

Nicole Smith
I know, it’s exciting, because everyone automatically says, I need a VA. That’s the first hire I need. I think there’s two ways we can go with what support. Anyway, I’ll hand over to you. I’d love from your view, the difference between a VA and an OBM and how do you really know what you need?

Heinna Reyes
Yeah, okay. No, I love this for me. Starting off where you go back is really going back to what do you need? I always tell everybody list what you need, you know, lists, what is it that lists what you need and list what you hate to do. And then from there, you really have to analyse, okay, from this list of things that I need done, I don’t know how to do. What is it that I need now? You know, because I’m pretty sure you’re also working with, you know, I’m not saying you, everybody is, but if you’re working with a business coach, or whatnot, they can tell you like, hey, this is probably the first thing you need to do. And then from there realising is this a task, that I can do that somebody can help me with or is it more of a huge project that needs a whole strategy to be done? So you, those are the two things because if it’s more of a task, like let’s say, if it’s email cleanup, you know, there is a little bit of there’s strategy in that as well. However, somebody needs to clean up your email, more than likely, I would say, okay, let’s get a VA in there, you can tell them these are where I want things to be, creating rules and all that because your know what you need from that part. As for as if it’s like, if it’s a whole update of a system, or if it’s a project in regards to that will be a flow that needs to be a flow from A to Z. And then you need step by step on what you need to get done to get to your goal, that would be more of an OBM. So you really have to sit back and again, look at the things that you need, you don’t know how to do and honestly, you just don’t want to do you know the things. When you gather all of that and you say, okay, is this more of a tax base versus a full on project, because if it’s more tax base, yes, VA would be the best. Because they can get in there, get it done sorted, you go on to the next thing that you want to do as an online business manager, because you need to have that step by step. You I would go that route to get an OBM because that’s a whole another headspace that you need. And of course, you need a whole big heads. Now, I’m not saying OBMs have big heads that you need to get that done. So that would be the best thing. And it’s funny, because people ask me that I’m saying, Oh, well, I was told I needed a VA and it’s like, probably yes, maybe. But let’s see, what is it that you need? You know, and those are the things that I would look at. But some people are like, Oh, I don’t know if I can afford OBM like, okay, yes. But you have to think about like, do you just need a strategy or do you need the whole thing management? Those are the things you kind of have to step back and think of that would be my first thing. I know, that was a lengthy answer. But I need to share that because some people were just like, you don’t need an OBM. It’s like, probably you do, or I don’t need a VA I just need this. It’s like, you know, what do you need though? Then we can decide which one you need exactly.

Nicole Smith
Yeah, that was a really good explanation, actually. Because it is, you know, you can get either it’s really, really about identifying what you need, and asking yourself the question, because when it comes to the cost of things, money is a thing, we know that we’re in business, so we make money, but we do have to invest in ourselves to take that extra step forward. Like I know, that’s sort of where I am now. And I’ve taken a shift with the Virtual COO, I’m taking a step up in the business and financials, all that fun stuff, but when you’d make that transition, you know, you got to look at how all the other parts of businesses and I am in Ops so I can organise and make it beautiful. But I also know that I love having a team around me who we work together to you know, to deliver and create and all of those things. So yeah, I’m having conversations this week actually with my head of OBMs there.

Heinna Reyes
I want to add I want to add one thing though also not saying this. It’s everybody but there’s also VAs out there. This is one that just like hit we want it to be like did you can you should be an OBM. There is VAs out there that produce as OBMs but hasn’t stepped into it as well. So you again, that’s that whole thing about what you want to do in your business who you want to serve, because some of them because they’ve had that title for so long, that’s what they get in that cookie cutter, that rule. Everybody says, you start this way. You got to really connect with again, back going back to the whole connecting with the person, because, wow, you do do a lot of things like, you know, we’re be like, Oh, this is all out there. And that’s fine. But everybody has their own thing and, you know, could be time constraint, or that’s just where you want to be in your business. But there’s a lot of VAs out there that I’ve seen that potentially can be OBM or should be OBM, but it’s more again, finding the right people that you can connect with. I think, going back to that, I think even not just finding somebody that’s a VA or for OBM, but really finding them the person that you need for the things that you need done. You know, and that’s another thing, as well.

Nicole Smith
As you said, everybody offers different solutions. Yeah, I think as well, the terminology OBM – online business manager is becoming more known now. Whereas even a couple of years ago, you’d be like, I’m an OBM, and you like you’re what?

Heinna Reyes
When I first started to there was just so like, what is that? Yeah, no, but I think it’s opening up now, because a lot of people have, you know, stepped into the online space.

Nicole Smith
What was your like, moment of, hey, actually, I’m an OBM, not a VA?

Heinna Reyes
Oh, because when I had a client who is great at asking me these things. And I’m like, because I need to know to help you. And I know, I just want this one thing. I’m like, look, this one thing does need to get done. But there’s also so many other things that we can have, like, do we need this one thing now? Or can we do this 20 years later? And I’m, like, you know, six months later, can we get this done first to get you going in your business? And then I just started feeling like, Oh, my God, I’m so nosey. And then, because I started looking more online. I was like, I was like, Oh, actually, I was like, online. I wish I just put online business. And then I found like a little thing and said, Online Business Manager, and then that just went into that rabbit hole I was and there’s all these things. I was saying, okay, okay. Because everybody was, why asking me and I’m just like, exciting to know, you know, because I’ve worked before, it’s like, they just get it done, which is fine. You know, but I’m more like, why do we need to do this, really deep diving in that and that’s when I knew I was like, there’s more to this. So yeah, literally was just a Google Search.

Nicole Smith
Yeah, I was actually chatting to one of my IT humans, he was saying, you know IT these days, you just need to really, obviously, there’s technical, you just need to really know how to Google.

Heinna Reyes
Yes. Correct.

Nicole Smith
I love that as well. Just making that recent shift in my business as well. And I know we talk it’s not about the title, but sometimes being able to associate and align ourselves with a name, whatever that might be. Human or whatever it is. Like, I know, the moment I’m like, oh, this, this is it. This feels right. I am asking all the questions. How is it connected? Why? And I’m thinking about the bigger picture. And I’m just not doing all the doing. What’s the difference? Between why I’m not an OBM versus I’m a Virtual COO, but it’s the same transitional period, right of going, there’s more to this and that. If anyone’s out there listening who is a VA at the moment thinking, I ask those questions. Come on over and connect to this fabulous human on the other side.

Heinna Reyes
I don’t even know how to save your right like because even took me so long, like, you know, lazy like I was telling you there like what do you feel good about. And I started now like, and like even now with the tar like, I’m an Online Business Manager I mentioned. Like when we did the operations in a way I was like, damn it, that’s it. That’s it. We’re loving it. Like that’s it. You can just you connect to it, you know, and that’s who you know, that’s why I think why you were saying OBM could be anything to be quite honest. You can tell yourself because what you step in what you’re really stepping into, because you can say, you know, I am an email marketing manager, that’s also an online business manager, I would say because, hey, there’s so much into email marketing that I was like there isn’t a whole thing of it. Everything and I was like, it’s such a big thing for me. I still trying to grasp all of that, to be quite honest. But that’s what it is. Because when you step into OBM itself, it’s not just just you know, quote, OBM but it’s like, who are you? And who do you serve? What do you want to serve? That all goes into line with that. And that’s what I wanted to like, share with everybody like, this is the online space, you could do whatever you want, within reason. But you can do whatever you want. And you get to share that you get to help people. And I think once you like yourself connecting with the right humans, again, it feels so good. Like, you’re just like, this is like, this is why I’ve been wanting to do this. And this is where it is I want to push. Again, I mean, took me a while, you know, I had to go through some things until I was like, Ah, okay, this is what I want to do.

Nicole Smith
It’s the feeling, isn’t it? When I started my business. I said three years, three years until the things really clicking. And I knew that and print bag on on three years and the 10th of January next year. And it’s all clicking in this last sort of two to three months. Which was bang on. And it’s really interesting going through all of the iterations. Right? What business is and, and moving away from that. I will do all the things for ya. So easy as a supporting helpful human that you want to make sure everyone else feels okay. So yeah, I was wondering as well, like, with your clients, when they first sort of come on board, do you find that there’s some similar, especially now you found your humans, are there similar like traits and themes that you explore, you know, as you go through welcome them into your world? How you build those relationships together?

Heinna Reyes
Yeah. Yeah. Because even like, you know, when, yeah, good, we’ll put back with you. But like, we’re working on Lizzie trying to find like my branding and who I want to serve? And you know, who is it that you know, who is what is my voice, I really come to find that the three kinds of people I really love connecting with and also other VAs other people that have made in the corporate world that were just like, you know, beep beep. And then of course, mums, because like, that was like the start of my business because I was like, do I go back to work work? Or do I do this just long? I’m not saying again, that was, again, a whole nother thing. But when you find those people, I feel like I connect with them. Because I understand. This is it. Like in I can connect with him when I relate to them. And then when when I talk about the things about like, you know finding the people you want to serve finding who what you want to surround everybody’s like, yeah, and I was like, Yeah, it’s true, because we’re all like, we’re all pretty similar into the struggles that we go through. It’s just more like, it’s nice to have somebody to do it with, you know, rather than having to do it by yourself. And I think, overall, in regards to other like client wise, I should say where it’s like I’m serving them as an OBM that’s more of a little bit different, but the ones where other staff who wants to be an OBM those are the three that I really connect with, like other VAs, because they knew again, they’ve been asking the same question. You know and other, you know, support in the corporate world and they’re like, Yeah, I’m and I’m so over ABC, and other lonja Yeah, I know, I could do more. I’ve done this already. You know, back in my old setup, as a mum, now there’s more that I know that I can do. But even as a mum, you, you realise like, well, I can multitask. You know, I can do all these things. It’s not just one thing. So yeah, those are the kind of the humans that I really come to find that I’ve connected with. I’m not saying that I’m not going to connect with anybody else. But it has been really nice, because I’m like, Yeah, I totally get it. You know, like, right here with you, buddy. Like, that’s where it is.

Nicole Smith
We’re travelling in similar journeys. I think like pre kids, you know, you’re in a different trajectory, is that the right word? Like you’re just you’ve got yourself and potentially your partner and animals if you’ve got those, well, at that point, you can get up, you can go, you can move, you can easily do the things without much practice or thought. All of a sudden, these little humans arrive. You have to make sure you’ve got bags packed with things. Otherwise, you might end up with dirty nude children.

Heinna Reyes
You gotta keep them alive. That’s another thing.

Nicole Smith
I think it’s lovely to be able to have those real conversations. We got on this call this morning. It was a morning. You don’t have to say any more than that. You just like it’s the morning and you back up. You’re like, yeah, got it. Yeah. The dogs doing things just like being able to come in and have that connection. And when you can design your business to be able to go, Okay, today is not a day, it’s a thing, and I need some human time. And you’ve got those relationships with your clients, because you know, right, have you been there? Yeah, you’ve pushed through when you’re feeling not great, you know, knowing that it’s okay to take that time for you, as well. And when we’re looking at how were structuring what you offer, and who you work with, and the people that you surround yourself with interruptions, life happens. And, you know, supporting your humans to be able to design those businesses and find their ways to support them is is so key.

Just interrupting this episode, for one little message, if you have been listening and love what you hear and want to come in connect, we have a Take Control with Nicole Facebook community, right over there are Facebook that I would love to invite you to come and join us. We are a supportive community, we are looking to really take action in our businesses, and change the way or evolve the way we’re working right now. So I invite you to get home on over and join our community and connect with us all. Community is the essence of everything, you business, being able to really build those relationships that you can nurture, and grow and support and celebrate each other are how fabulous, I hope to see you over there. Pop on over to Facebook, Take Control with Nicole, see you soon.

Heinna Reyes
Yeah, no, I think that’s what it is basically, because this year for me has been down, down, down, up and down, down. And I used to get so like for the weekend, I was like, I was gonna do this. And it was thanks to him, I was like, oh my god, I’m never gonna do this. And then like, mid year, I was like, I’m gonna do this, because I want to do this. And this is where it’s going to be. And this is how it’s going to say, and I’m not going to apologise for you, and then they still happen. But things are still going it’s because I’ve designed it to where, you know, even things are hitting the fan and things are just going crazy. I still get to choose how I wanted to be. And again next year, you know, again, you’re like we said earlier, please, let’s not put too much pressure on 2023. But to be quite honest, it’s because of how I’ve set it up and before you because I got so frustrated because it’s not the structured thing. Things are not aligned now. It’s just for like, a welcome to the disaster of things that happened. But we will we do it together. And I think that’s why OBM Assembly is so big because a lot of people like to, you know, people like oh, well, you can, you know, join in with the people that do the same thing as you it’s like, no, you can because you have designed it to where you only aren’t taking in the ways you like or how you do things. So it’s like, I can be best friends with a new we know there’ll be own I don’t care because I know my clients, for me, it’s mine, and theirs is for theirs. And then, you know, again, things happen. And there’s just that humans, that’s fine. That’s their own choice, but I’m not gonna go crazy over oh, there’s a client, I’m gonna get I’m gonna go rushing get them? No, it’s more of a, hey, there’s a client and they do they need what you need, or they need what you do or what you support here. And that’s why I want to create a community where it’s just like, we can do that, because you’re not afraid of just like, oh, we only have two clients and they have five as well I’d rather have these two than those five that they have because those are not my type of people, you’re okay with it, you know, and that’s why OBM Assembly is such a big deal. For me, I’ve taken a lot of time of like reflecting these past couple of months on it, like how I wanted to really be, but that is really what I want. I want it to people coming in serving what they want to serve, connecting with others and really sharing that it’s okay to be a little bit different, like, you know, it’s okay that you’re doing it this way that it’s not the, you know, quote unquote, job title that you’re supposed to have. I mean, of course, again, there’s a guideline, you’re going to very, very soon say that all the time, but you show it to where how you want to serve and you want to serve and your clients will appreciate you more than ever that, you know, all right. Yeah, for sure.

Nicole Smith
100% Yes to all of that. Let’s celebrate the uniquenesses of everyone’s businesses, and I love it when I discover someone who does something I do. I want to connect with them. Be my friend.

Heinna Reyes
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, some people don’t take you like that, but they’re not your people. And that’s fine. Do what you got to do.

Nicole Smith
As well when you first start. Like I was all I’ve always been that way. I’ve never been the competitive type. I’m always looking for someone. On Tuesday when I was at my co working, I was having a chat with the community manager there and I said, I’m a connector and he said you are but you’re also a collector. He says,you collect people, and you bring them along the journey with you. And I’m like, I love that. That’s so fabulous. Because I do it’s one of those things that when you surround yourself with like minded people, magic can happen.

Heinna Reyes
Because your energy you like, bounce off each other.

Nicole Smith
That’s it, the energy transfer is beautiful and positive. I know, we all have moments of doubt and, you know, I’m like, can I do this? And then like, this week, I had, I was having a conversation with one of my clients. It was a group conversation, I got off and I said to myself, Wow, my value is way past the deliverables, my value is in conversation. And isn’t that strange? Because I guess that comes from the corporate land world of what have you done?
Same for your humans that are in the assembly group is being able to assist them to discover what their value is.