Nicole Smith

Welcome to Take Control with Nicole, as business owners we experience first hand the fine line between our personal and business lives. During our conversations, we will look at simple hints and tips to create time, reduce overwhelm, and help you to navigate through your journey to where you want to be. If you’re looking for smarter ways to work, and create space and time freedom in your day, then you’re in the right place. All right, let’s go.

Hello and welcome back to another episode of Take Control with Nicole. Today I am speaking with the fabulous Jenn Donovan all about marketing to make your business grow. Jenn is a marketing thought leader, change leader coach and mentor for small businesses. Along with being an international keynote speaker and best selling author and podcaster. Being a rural girl born and bred herself, Jen is sought after for her thought leadership and knowledge around what it’s like to run and grow a business in rural and regional Australia. Now this can come with some challenges. So running these businesses, while also contending with everything that is thrown at us such as droughts, floods, bushfires, mouse plagues, just to name a few. Jenn’s impact on rural and regional Australia has been enormous with her social enterprise pumping more than $5 million back into the Australian economy, which enabled the survival of so many small businesses during some of the harshest times known to business in the past 50 years. Jen is a farmer’s daughter, a farmer’s wife and has three young adult children. Jenn loves her work, but her family is her passion, and is always her number one love. Well, hello, Jenn, welcome onto the podcast. I am so excited to have you here today.

Jenn Donovan

Oh, my goodness. Good morning. Thank you so much for having me. What a thing to have to listen to about yourself. That was such a beautiful introduction. Thank you.

Nicole Smith

My pleasure. It’s all about you. That’s what I love. We’re just talking for everyone who’s listening that wasn’t here. Before we pressed record. We were just talking about recording interviews pre or during the call. And that’s what I love. Because this reaction of wow, that’s me just talking about me about that person’s.

Well, I’d love you to continue on this beautiful intro and tell us a little bit more about yourself and how we arrived here today.

Jenn Donovan

Yeah, beautiful. Thank you. So I don’t know where to start with that question. So I have two businesses. So one is my social media and marketing business, which the whole premise of that social media marketing business is to help small businesses make marketing a priority be not a sometimes activity, not on a Friday afternoon when I’ve got time activity, but actually putting it at the forefront of the business realising just how much of an impact marketing can make. And so does that make and break of business as well. So I do that through workshops, writing books, doing keynotes, everything like that, but that underpins just about everything that I try and do in my business. I also talk a lot about human to human marketing, which I know we’re gonna talk about today and community building. Because the other side of my other business, which I used to call a side hustle, but let’s face it, they all want 40 hours a week now is an online marketplace and a Facebook group, so spend with us buy from a bush business. So the Facebook group is enormous. It’s got over 360,000 people in it. And when I say that people like wow, I’d like a group that size. And my reaction is no, no, you wouldn’t? No, definitely not. It is a lot of work. And also a marketplace, which is kind of like Amazon, but it’s only for rural and regional small businesses in Australia. So that’s what keeps me really busy all day, every day other than when I get to go out and feed my chalks, and, you know, all of that sort of thing that you do with a little bit of farm life and enjoy some sunshine. But yeah, that just about me.

Nicole Smith

Amazing. I remember when I first saw your group’s pop up, because I did and I thought, Wow, what a fabulous thing to help bring awareness to all these amazing business owners around Australia. You don’t have to be in a city to have an idea or a concept or anything like that. And it’s just about that facilitation to get it out to the wider world. Ryan.

Jenn Donovan

Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, there’s been a lot of growth in myself, even from running these sorts of things and having an idea and running with the concept like earlier this year, we created and ran the first ever Australian Rural Business Awards. And you know, when we were looking at the concepts like how is there not already a business awards that celebrates rural and regional small businesses, it was kind of like one of those moments you’re like, really is not let me Google that, again, type of thing there has to be, and they probably was in the past, and they may have died out, you know if anyone is listening. And so it goes, Well, I remember back, you know, possibly, but at the moment, so, you know, again, it’s giving that platform to celebrate everything that’s rural and regional, which is such a passion for mine. But it has also been a growth like I remember, you know, being in the marketing business five, six years ago, when I was travelling around all the capital cities, I didn’t tell anyone I was from a farm. I didn’t tell anyone I was from rural Australia, because I felt like I wasn’t from the city, they’re not gonna think that I know what I’m talking about. So take you seriously. Yeah, they won’t take me seriously. And some people might and then that’s totally fine. They’re not for me, then. But yeah, like, you know, to think that I’ve had that growth in me, and now really trying to, you know, put a spotlight on, you know, the absolute talent that exists out in rural and regional Australia is great. The evolution of that thought.

Nicole Smith

For the community as well, like when I think about, you know, rural towns and smaller towns out and, you know, out of the big cities, I just feel okay, I’ll give you an example. So recently, I drove up to Orange to attend the huddle. Yeah, it was amazing, like, beautiful. Yeah, a fabulous event. But on the way we stopped in to get coffee and breakfast, and she due at this little town on the way and we walked into the coffee shop, and immediately was like, met with smiles and like, like welcoming people. And I just thought, Oh, this is so like, such a fabulous community feel. I’m like, I want to move to the country. Think it’s gonna happen. Like it’s been happening in the back of my mind for a while. Which is, yeah, not immediately. But I just love that element of community and being able to use not use that but enhance that. Yeah. Everybody see that passion that people have?

Jenn Donovan

Yeah, look? Absolutely, absolutely. It really is. Anyone who lives in a rural or regional area, anyone who lives in a close community knows the power of community, which is new, I guess, a lot of us saw that during the pandemic, that there was lots of stories going around about people who lived in high rises, and all of a sudden melted, playing games in hallways, and you know, doing each other’s shopping or swapping butter for sugar and things that they had just never done before. That is to say, you know, this is what we do. And now, you know, the concepts are moving in. So it’s been great.

Nicole Smith

Yeah, I remember when I was growing up playing on the street was a normal thing. It’s something shifted in the last 2030 years, however long, you know, like, we are very good friends with our neighbours, but we hardly see them. The kids don’t play out on the street anymore, like chickens. So my neighbour did just get chickens. And we’ve had our first sharing of eggs and

Jenn Donovan

Great neighbour to have with eggs and lemons.

Nicole Smith

We got the lemons. She’s got the eggs, we’re sorted. So let’s talk a little bit about marketing, because that’s obviously why we’re here today. But what do you think the number one, like if we were to start our business and you came in and said, okay, the number one activity, you should look at or investing time in to really grow your business? What would that be?

Jenn Donovan

Gosh, the number one really there’s like 10 number ones,

Nicole Smith

Well, let’s talk about all 10 if we have time

Jenn Donovan

Marketing and a marketing activity, they’re slightly different. So when you talk marketing, my number one thing was get to know your client get to know your ideal client. know the ins and outs, ups and downs, and roundabouts of them know what makes them tick, where they’re hanging out, you know, what their price point needs to be for them to know whether they are your target market, and all that target market stuff. And I know anyone who has listened to a marketer before possibly is rolling their eyes going, oh my god, if I have to hear about target market one more time, but so many people missed the mark. And you know, and therefore they really struggle in business because they just think that everybody is their ideal client. And that might be so but you can’t talk to everybody because if you talk to everyone, you’re not talking to anyone type of thing. So as far as like a holistic marketing, I would say you know, know your target market, know where they’re hanging out and all of that, but a marketing activity, I would say start an email list from the very beginning. Start an email list. I feel a little bit conflicted in my next sentence because I talk a lot about don’t build empires on Crown land. So don’t build all your business on you know, Mark Zuckerberg’s platforms, because they can be taken away tomorrow, you could be hacked next week. All of those things. And I often say to people, you know, if if social media disappeared tomorrow, do you have a business if your answer to that is I’m not sure or No, you’ve got a real problem in your business. So growing that email list is kind of like that safety net in some ways and yes, you need to know how to email people and you know, put them through nurture and things like that and not just sell, sell, sell, but if you’ve got beliefs If you’re you know, you’re halfway there learning how to use the list, it’s a whole different thing. And the reason why I guess I feel conflicted is because I have a Facebook group that’s got 367,000 people in it, and I don’t have every one of those email addresses. So I get that, you know, I have literally built an empire on a Crown land, but it was never supposed to be an empire, I guess, is kind of my excuse for that. And, you know, we are definitely putting things in place over the next four or five months to combat that just in case Touchwood that, you know, something may or may not happen to that. But yeah, email list and get to know your ideal client would be the two things that I would say,

Nicole Smith

Yeah, that’s something that I absolutely resonate with. And my email list is a priority for me to start to grow this humans on there, and they read it, they’re engaged. So that’s the first tick of the box. But I think one key thing is knowing that it is a human on the other side. So when you’re saying know your audience, it’s like, okay, well, who is Bob over there that I’m talking to? How does he like to, you know, work with me if potentially all those sorts of things. And when you have a person there, it’s a lot easier than the crowds of people? Because you are having that one to one communication?

Jenn Donovan

Yeah, absolutely. And one of the best emails that I send out probably once a quarter, I like to say sometimes it’s three times a year, rather than once a quarter is, you know, Hi, Nicole, how’s things? How’s business? Jim? Yeah, like, you know, six, seven words in an email. And it feels people like, Oh, she’s, she actually wants me to reply to her. And you get to have conversations with people. And you learn a little bit more about your least or a little bit more about your ideal client, because let’s face it over the last couple of years, possibly who you think your ideal client is, they’ve probably changed in some way, because we’ve all changed because of what’s actually happened in the last couple of years and shopping habits have changed. Our budgets have changed all of that. So yeah, always looking to update what that is. But you know, if you’re thinking, Well, what do I send out to my email list? Well, just ask them how they are. Ask them how things are going and see what reply you get for a start.

Jenn Donovan

We try to overcomplicate things, I think don’t.

Jenn Donovan

And marketers are the best at that, I will definitely put my stake in the ground there.

Nicole Smith

Yeah, like with my email, I know that I have, you know, quite a consistent person. So every Wednesday, it goes out at 9:30am in the morning, and you’re gonna get the same structure, the content will slightly be different. Because, you know, otherwise, it will be boring. But then I just, I love that idea of what you just shared there, if that really personal contact, which I do in other ways on other platforms. But why wouldn’t you utilise what you’ve got there in front? Yeah.

Jenn Donovan

And like, you know, doing it every now and then is part of the key to that, like, if you ask them every week, how they are, they’re gonna be like, the same as last week, like, you know,

Nicole Smith

They got to get a little bit strange.

Jenn Donovan

Yeah, so it is a strategic email, but it’s a very personal email.

Nicole Smith

Love that. Oh, note to self. So something I’ve noticed in with my journey, so this is just over two and a half years in now. And as a small business owner, are really stepping into well, the businesses me like people want to connect with me as a human as the person that’s excited about all the things right. But at first, that was a little bit challenging, you know, because they still had corporate land hat on, like, Oh, I must wear all black. And I must, you know, look, the way I look which look, to be honest, this is it, regardless of colour, or not. But really sort of showing up and stepping out and starting to connect with your communities. Yeah, you know, for someone who’s maybe sad the start of their journey, or wherever they are, how do you encourage people to celebrate themselves?

Jenn Donovan

Yeah, absolutely. And I think it is a journey. But I think one of the key words you just use there is the word community, that we’ve got to stop thinking about these people as our audiences. So we’re preaching to them, or, you know, they’re not followers. They’re not following us. They’re not, you know, part of our audience, they’re actually part of our community. Like one of the inherent things as human beings that we need is to belong to something. And if they’re not belonging to your community, you can be rest assured, they’re belonging to your competitors community, because if they want what you sell, and you’re not giving them a community, then they’re going somewhere else for it. I think, you know, there’s that saying that says, you know, people come for the content, but they stay for the community. So you know, if you’re just putting out this content, have it no giving them somewhere to feel like they belong, and that doesn’t have to be a Facebook group or anything like that. It can literally be still your Instagram, but you’re creating that community by replying back to their comments by going to their platform and you’re showing them some love or sending them a DM or maybe the DM is actually you know, click the voice record button or the the camera button in your DM and you’re actually going up for them say, hey, thanks so much I loved that comment that you made or, you know, whatever that is to sort of create that human sort of context. So it doesn’t like when I talk about communities, again, you don’t have to create a Facebook group or you know, mighty network or whatever that is, you can still have a community within your email list within your socials that you’ve got now for sure. But for people who are hesitant about showing up, I think somewhat, you just have to push yourself out of that comfort zone. And that was certainly my experience. I’m not quite sure what your experience Nicole was. But, you know, I remember that quite some years ago, maybe eight years ago, it must be Now I belong to a mastermind group. In Melbourne, it was when I was still had a retail shop. And I used to go to Melbourne to this mastermind class. And I was the only retailer in the room. And one of the tasks at lunchtime was you had to go live on Facebook Live. That was the push yourself out of your comfort zone and go live. And I sat there having lunch with my friend Sam. And I complained and complained. And I complained about going live on Facebook, I don’t want to do it, you know, I don’t like the way I look or bla bla bla, whatever it was I was complaining about. And Sam clearly got fed up with me. And he turned to me and he said, Jen, you look and sound the same on Facebook is what you do having lunch with me now. So I don’t understand what the problem is. And that cut, I’m pretty sure a tea ran out of my eye when he said that. But the reality is that like if you can hold a conversation with someone in person, you can hold a conversation online and you can show up on your camera on your phone. It’s just a matter of you getting used to it. So I often say to people grab your phone, press record and just start talking. Do you make a mistake, don’t press pause because that’s a pattern interrupt in our head and we kind of get you know that anxiousness okay, I’ve got to get it right this time. Just keep talking and talking and talking and talking might take five minutes, two minutes, 10 minutes, it doesn’t matter. And you don’t even have to do anything with the video. You can delete it when you but just the concept of you looking nowhere to look on the camera, know what you’re looking like on the camera, and just getting used to your own self. I guess like, you know, you mentioned in my introduction that I’m a podcaster. You know, I’ve done over 200 episodes on my podcast. And I will listen back to my podcast strategically to make sure I didn’t upload the wrong one at the wrong date or something strange like that, because it’s been done before. And it doesn’t sound like me. I don’t think I sound like that. I could listen to myself all day, because I don’t think that that sounds like me, but clearly it is me

Nicole Smith

But that’s the thing sn’t it, though, that we don’t connect with our voices or something?

Jenn Donovan

Yeah, so I think you know, people who think you know, oh, I’m a little bit nervous, it’s like, well, you’re not gonna look what you think you look like, you’re not gonna sound like you think you sound like so you just kind of need to get over that. And I think there’s a thing. I don’t quite understand it. But someone was explaining it to me. When we look at ourselves in the mirror. It’s a mirror image. But when we look on our phones, it’s not. So we look slightly different to the way we’re used to seeing ourselves which is in a mirror. So again, it plays with our minds a little bit to go, oh God, do I look like that? And you know, and I had people say don’t use filters and things like that might build a will get you on, use a filter, put bunny ears on, put a makeup filter on Do whatever you have to do.

Nicole Smith

Totally agree, from my background, like I’ve got a saying just before we press record, I’ve got you know, I sing and I perform, and I dance and all that sorts of stuff, right? But when I first started in my business, going live going on Insta Stories, even when I knew that only a handful of people were watching like I was brand new, I probably had like less than 100 people on my Instagram. Like nobody is watching me right now. But it was that like, Oh no, I’ve never done it. And I just practice and practice and practice and practice. And even though I’ve been doing it now for a while I’ll still have conversations and after a press hang up or stop going live I’m like it wasn’t I was racing. I was not paced. It was this that the other and then I watch it back and I’m like, Oh, she knows what she’s talking about. She looks pretty good. So it’s that illusion in the moment as well that we think things have just gone off the wall where actually, you know, you’re amazing. That’s why you’ve got a business you know, you’re doing fabulous things you’re working with amazing people. You’re selling fabulous products. You got this you know, so that inner confidence, right that inner self knowing Yeah, I love it. Yeah, I think that’s it practice.

Jenn Donovan

Yeah, absolutely. And someone’s always looking at you wishing they could be like you.

Nicole Smith

Yes, I’ve noticed that with me looking at people who are just those few steps in front of me. And I had a moment was about a year ago I went into an in person event and I was sitting there like stood up yet Did the introduction home knock off now understands business solutions, blah, blah, blah. And afterwards, someone came up and said to me, I’ve been watching you on the socials. And I love what you do. And I’m like, Oh, my gosh, someone’s watching me, looking at me, like I look at all those other people over there. It’s just fabulous. Gotta love it. Sorry, we’ve always just spoken about going live as one of those sort of, I guess, human to human moments in marketing, what are some other things that we can do?

Jenn Donovan

So networking, online, and offline are things that I think we really need to embrace a little bit more as well. You know, I often talk about how your net worth is equal to your network. So you know who’s in your network for referrals for business, you know, for helping you as well. So that’s really an important part of showing up is going to networking events, pushing yourself out of your comfort zone, and networking online as well. Yeah, exactly.

Nicole Smith

So we’re both part of a fabulous community. We are One Roof. And yes, we have been to a couple of in person co working events that the fabulous Yeah, organised in Melbourne here. And the feeling in the room, there’s just something about it. It’s like, the common sentence is, ah, we’re all going through the same things. Yeah. Like and it’s, it’s wonderful to be able to connect with humans at whatever stage of business there are, I think that call route of what we’re doing, the journey that we’re going on, the things that we face in the day to day are so very similar. And when you have those connection points, it just makes you more human, right, you have that opportunity to chat more deeply, then this is the thing I do over here, like I’m actually here

Jenn Donovan

Yeah, exactly. And if you’re, you know, you think to yourself, Oh, I’m not a very good networker. I used to despise networking with an absolute passion. But I would force myself to go to networking events to meet other people. And I actually pick up the tray of sandwiches or the tray of sausage rolls. And I’d actually walk around with them because it gave me an excuse to interrupt people’s conversations when I didn’t know anybody. So you know, pass the food around every now and then someone would think I worked there. But you know, hopefully not many people thought that but that was my way of patent interrupting. I didn’t know anyone. But if I look busy, or I’ve got an excuse to go up to people, then, you know, that really helped as well. And the other thing that can really help if you’re nervous about networking, is be the question asker you know, go up and ask people questions. everyone’s favourite subject is themselves.

Nicole Smith

Yeah, it is true, we can talk about ourselves a lot, if you give us the trigger points to go. Yeah, I think that’s right, if we’re feeling a little bit uneasy, especially in person online is I feel a lot easier. Because you’re in the safety of your own space, but you can turn the camera off if you need to, you know, so giving yourself that opportunity. And somewhere like the communities that you know, were involved with and others that I am, when you have a really good community creator, they build this container for you to feel comfortable in, to really allow yourself to be involved as little or as much as you want to ask questions as little or as many as you need to, and have other humans to connect with you in those situations. When it’s live in person, sometimes we can easily say Oh, that’s too hard to go to that I don’t want to go by myself it’s too hard. And so like what I found is like for me it’s I love humans so I’m like oh, if any person ticket bought let’s go whereas my other friends that are like oh I’m not sure I’m like come with me I’ll be your wingwoman for the night like you do you but you know I’m here if you need to, you know, come back in. So having someone like that as well can always be a great a great thing to do to get you into the habit of the flow of it. Hello fabulous humans just interrupting this episode to let you all know about an exciting new in person workshop series that is coming soon. Right now you know you’re ready to move your business to the next level. You know marketing is a priority but have found that the lack of structure in this area creates the day to day business and feeling just that little bit clunky. Introducing the take action workshops with our first in a fabulous series Making marketing easy. Nicole Smith which is me your business operations specialists along with the fabulous Serena Lowe, a specialist in marketing partnerships are here to smooth out your marketing process so you can be excited to share with your communities easily from this point onwards. During our workshop we will help you to design your marketing strategy, explore creative content ideas, build click up to align with your new marketing strategy and make it so Easy to repeat each and every month, and you will walk away with the next 30 days populated and ready for you to connect with your communities. We know you know it’s possible. This is your time to enhance your systems and learn how to connect these with your fabulous business goals. We have designed this experience with you in mind, as we know you are serious about taking the next step and discovering what can be possible. Does this sound like it’s made for you? How fabulous join us for this amazing in person event on Friday, the ninth of September, at the stunning spaces at Creative cubes in Carlton. To secure your spot, pop on over to the artisan stock Comdata you backslash workshops and select making marketing easy. We look forward to welcoming you into the room on the 9th of September.

Jenn Donovan

Yeah, and understand that there’s plenty of other people in the room that feel exactly the same as you, like, you’re not the only one there that probably doesn’t know anyone I went to an awards ceremony the other week in Sydney, you know, big ball, you know, fancy dress type of after, you know, evening wear, and I knew no one and I just had to walk into this room of people find my seat. And you know, I put myself down, I just turn through and say hi, how are you? What are you? What’s your business? Again, you know, you just got to force yourself to do it would have been so easy to go? No, I’m not going by myself.

Nicole Smith

Yeah. And it’s you know, what I find whenever I go to these things, and I even if I am feeling a little bit like, especially after the last few years and like, you know, I live away out of the city. So like when I decide to go to something there’s you know, plans that you need, especially travelling to Sydney, for instance. gala balls, I’m so excited to go back to love getting dressed up any opportunity for sparkles for me, but totally lost track of where I was heading there. But doing the things giving yourself that little nudge. Oh, discovering fabulous new humans, oh, so many people I’ve met through this community that has a flow on effect, you know, have transitioned into clients or have referred me on to people. You know, the story that I recent times is I’ve got one of my clients now who I love working with, she’s a business coach, but she had started to refer people to me, before we even a had properly met, we’ve met at an event but you know, properly met. And then she started to come and work with me. And I thought, wow, that’s the real connection point there is that we’ve met once. And she’s following me. And she knows and I’d worked with some of her clients as well. So again, that connection points. And I was like that is the power of networking right there and not networking, like, here’s my business card check you see you later it’s connection, you know those stories. So

Jenn Donovan

yeah, absolutely. And such a great thing that, you know, she was possibly there to get some great connections for herself. But she’s also, you know, come away with great people she can refer business to and talk to other people, which is, you know, that whole what networking is about, it’s just not about you, you’ve got to go there with those two hats on? Who can I find that can service and help the people that I know? And who can you know, I help?

Nicole Smith

I can’t help myself if somebody like is looking for someone on looking for this that the other mic you need to speak with? Yeah. And they’ll be like, let me send you their details now or let me connect you via an email or, you know, they’re fabulous. They’re going to be the right fit for you. My mind just naturally goes into that way. So yeah, a great connector. Yeah. Yeah, actually, finally

Yeah, people can actually connect.

Nicole Smith

So life is lego, connecting together. Oh, well, I think we’ve touched on why it’s so important. But is there anything else that you know, you’re sort of key messages to people about networking, in particular, why it is such a, you know, a fabulous activity? And as part of your strategy is part of your marketing strategy?

Jenn Donovan

Yeah, no, really, except, you know, understand that your net worth will be quite represented by your network. So the more you can grow your network, the bigger your businesses can grow with the right people, like you know, we all want not only a buyer, but the right buyer and the right buyer happens, do someone who wants to be part of your community, someone who will buy from you, again and again, and someone who will refer business to you and you can sometimes find those people, you know, at networking events, or a referral from a networking event. So I, you know, as much as networking still makes me nervous, you know, if you can push yourself out of your comfort zone like I do, then I think it’s a really good idea to, you know, find those things. You find those tribes of people offline and online. There’s lots of online ones. That’s one of the gifts of the pandemic is that now there are online networking that you can find and join.

Nicole Smith

And it’s how people are talking about you when you’re not in the room right like that is sunrise.

Jenn Donovan

Yes, that’s a great quote. Isn’t that? Yeah, I love that quote. Yeah.

Nicole Smith

Well, is there anything else you want to share with us about? I know, it’s probably asking like a peanut needle in a haystack about marketing, for small business owner in particular, because they’re the fabulous humans that primarily listening to us today. If they’re sitting there thinking, Oh, this marketing thing just seems a little bit not in my remit right now. Yeah. What is that sort of one, or a message, your message that you put out to your communities to give them that kind of go for it? You got this?

Jenn Donovan

Yeah, look, I suppose it goes back to what I was saying, at the start, that, you know, make marketing a priority in your business. If you want to grow your business, then it’s very easy to know, then that more people just need to know about your business? And how do people get to know about your business? Will they get to know you about your business through marketing. So marketing is everything from word of mouth, to social media, to email to, you know, other offline and online marketing strategies like Google and things like that. But you don’t have to do it all, you know, make marketing a priority, but pick one thing, and do it really, really, really well, before you move on to the next thing, like, you know, at this point, in my business, I’m finding a push to tick tock versus like, Oh, I’m trying to resist it, because I’m like, there are other places that I want to spend my activity and other ways I want to grow my business, other than, you know, having a tick tock account, but then I flip the coin, I think, well, you’re already making reels. So you know, you could just repurpose them onto tick tock and just see how it goes type of thing. But I think we get caught with the next thing. Everyone’s doing this. And we tend to follow the crowd, rather than looking back strategically going, who is our ideal client? Where do they hang out? Because that’s where I need to be. And if for some small business owners, you know, I do chat to them. And they’ll say things like, you know, I really hate LinkedIn, I don’t get LinkedIn, you know, have this thing against LinkedIn. But when we do their profile of who their ideal client is on LinkedIn, but if you want to grow, it’s your responsibility to run a customer centric business that’s all about the customer. It’s not about you. So LinkedIn is a platform that your clients are on and you want to sell to them. It’s up to you to learn that and whether that’s Instagram, Facebook, Tik Tok, whatever that platform is, if your clients are there, you know, you can’t say I don’t want to be that. So it’s like, well, if you’re in business, it’s no actually about you. It’s about your clients. That’s a bit of a harsh reality, for sure.

Nicole Smith

Sorry, it’s not actually about you. Like, if you want to have a successful, whatever it is, like sometimes we just have to do the hard things yet I talk about taking action, so that you can really build to your big whatever it means for you. Right. But I love that you said you use LinkedIn as an example, because it is something that I have heard as well, time and time again, I think it’s that LinkedIn has this persona of corporate, right, you have to be tight suit, you know, all that. Whereas my experience is really different. And it’s changing that up for people to see that you can still be just a fabulous human on there and said, Actually, correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m sure the platform was actually created with connection in mind. So

Jenn Donovan

absolutely, yeah. Because that’s what you do you connect with people that I think that if you are not the suit and tie person, then you’re more likely to stand out on a platform like that as well. Because obviously, your ideal client has to be on there. But you know, if you have personality, if you have spunk, if you have that, you know, human to human connection type of thing, you know, you can get a lot of traction on a platform like that, because you stand out from the crowd. And, you know, that’s what it’s all about at the end of the day, but I love what you were saying before about taking action, like you know, I talked about the fact that the world doesn’t need more people aiming to do something, I’m gonna do this I’m gonna I’m aiming I’m gonna, you know, this is on the to do this. The world doesn’t need that the world needs more people taking action, and actually putting things out to the world and then seeing how they go and working it out as they go along. Because if you wait for your business or your product or something to be perfect, it possibly never will be because my perception of what’s perfect and your perception of what’s perfect are two very different things, I’m sure

Nicole Smith

and it is amazing what you learn on the journey, as you know, I know, two and a half years right but Wowzers what I have learned personally from a business perspective from about how I like to work, operate, communicate, honing in on and really connecting with my messaging, and my values as well. Like the moment I did that, all of the other things just became so easy. But I took action as in I made that investment of time and energy to connect with those messages. And then I also made that took action by implementing those across places. Whereas they could stay in a beautiful click up document and not see the light of day, if you’re happy with where you’re on, you’re happy with how you’re working, and you’ve got clients rolling through the doors, and you’re happy, fabulous. Whereas if you want to travel to building big ditches bigger than where you are, we do need to take those bits of actions.

Jenn Donovan

Yeah, and you know, that whole human to human marketing thing, I guess, you know, some of the little things that you can do is rather than typing a message, send a voice message. Rather than sending voice messages, send a video methods, like just up the ante just a little bit with, you know, who you’re showing up for and how you’re showing up. You know, on Instagram Stories, you have the opportunity to say something to close friends, make some close friends lists that are perhaps you know, some of your Instagram besties, or a list of your clients or something like that, and create content just for them and send it just to them. Make people feel really special in your world as part of your community and appreciated. And it will come back to you in tenfold. You know, it’s either their business that they’ll bring more of, although refer more business to you, or you’ll just have a happier time in your business serving the clients and customers that you already do.

Nicole Smith

I have you’ve just You took the words out of my mouth. I mean, added to a few of those, like close friends thingies on Instagram, and I’m like, Oh, she thinks of me as a close friend. Wow, I love this. This makes you feel so happy and like, and it’s it is those small, warm and fuzzy. Yeah, exactly. Oh, this has been so good. Or thank you so much. I love it. Now one thing that we do with all of our fabulous guests is we have three fabulous questions to ask, are you ready to have a? Alrighty, okay, let’s, let’s do it. Let’s take action. Okay, what is your go to app that creates ease in your day. Now you can have a couple if you want. Because some people like to have a various things here

Jenn Donovan

look probably, you know, as far as apps that make my life easier. Splice is something I use quite a lot. It’s a video type app, I have this thing where I might record an Instagram story like four stories, which equals 60 seconds, download, load them onto my phone, then put them into splice, stitch them all together. And then I’ve got a 62nd video to share on other platforms. So that’s like, I’m the repurpose queen, if I can repurpose a piece of marketing that I will repurpose it as many possible ways as I can. And that’s you know, so splice makes that stitching together of little videos really easy that I like. So that’s definitely an app I use quite a lot. The other one is probably a little bit more obvious, such as Canva, like, you know, who doesn’t love Canva? You know, that just makes my life just so much easier, as far as you know, trying to download things with my phone or, you know, put something onto social media or make myself look a little bit better with, you know, Instagram reel or something like that. So yeah, they’re probably the two apps that I use the most

Nicole Smith

that I’m repurposing is something that I’m trying to get better at. And I do have a similar app I use in shop for that sort of together. But on the Canva point, I have to share this now you probably already over it. But did you know that you can have grab an embedded code to your design and put it on your website?

Jenn Donovan

Ah, I don’t actually think I do you know that.

Nicole Smith

I sort of started a new series with the fabulous Serena local coffee chats. And with this repurposing in mind, and like how can we repurpose this 20 minute conversation? And I was thinking of SEO and all those other fabulous things. Like let’s pop it on the website. And I was like okay, download says no embedded code. Amazing. It looks fabulous. Sorry. There we go. If you’re listening, go on over to my website, find coffee chat in there and you can see what it looks like but I love both of those. So fabulous. Beautiful. Okay, so are you an online paper or hybrid to do lists level.

Jenn Donovan

I’m probably a little bit hybrid in that I have a to do list that I type into just simply a document and it’s got urgent, semi urgent would like to do one day when I have time. But I print it off because I like the physical crossing out of something. So it’s like therapeutic for me to go cross out that I’ve Dammit. So I probably typed my to do list out and then I printed out and have it next to me so that I don’t get too lost with things.

Nicole Smith

I think I was I don’t know if it was another podcast recording or not. So if you’ve heard this just last week, sorry about that. But like, I’m, I definitely am a heavy clickup user, obviously, but was talking to someone, and it was the action of getting it out of the brain as well to help give you a day. So regardless of how you do that, right, so yeah, that’s cool.

Jenn Donovan

And that’s why I have the, you know, we’d like to do one day lists, because they’re the thoughts that I don’t want to lose. So I just put them on the list so that, you know, it’s like, oh, okay, I had that thought. It may not come to fruition for 12 months, but it stays on the list. So I don’t forget about that brilliant idea that I came up with.

Nicole Smith

Yeah, especially if there’s 2am ones in the morning. The best ones.

Jenn Donovan

They really I write really good emails when I don’t have a computer in front of me to write the actual email. Oh, love

Nicole Smith

Okay, final question is what would you do if you created more space in your world?

Jenn Donovan

Gosh, I would actually spend more time with friends and family, to be totally honest with you, like, you know, a my intro it said that, you know, I had three young adult children, you know, they’re my children. My youngest is 18. My eldest is 22. And I have one in the middle there, and they’ve just grown up so quickly. And I just think to myself, Wow, I haven’t got them for much longer. Now, before, you know, they’re already off at unis. And, you know, got partners and things like that it’s gonna happen really quickly. So probably spending more time with them, but also spending more time with my friends as well. That’s what I would do if I could make more space in my world.

Nicole Smith

Yeah, I love that. I was talking to someone yesterday and the space of the last, you know, 234 years, it feels like it’s just been evaporated. I don’t know where it’s gone. But yeah, my kids are, what, gosh, seven in September and four in November. And I am like, how have you become these humans? I’ve got a puppy. He’s almost as I said, like seven months. Like he’s not a puppy anymore. He’s massive. Didn’t expect him to be this big. But I love him. So. Well, thank you so much for joining me today, I would really love you to just tell everyone where we can connect you.

Jenn Donovan

Beautiful, thank you. And it’s been such a good chat. I’ve really loved this chat. So you can find me on social media at Jen Donovan. I think on Instagram, I’ve got an underscore underneath it. Otherwise, my website is social media and marketing.com.au. And of course, I have a podcast called Small Business made simple. If you are a podcast listener, and you would love to come over there, I would love you to be one of my listeners.

Nicole Smith

Fabulous. And go and connect over there with Jen pop on her mailing list as well, because so you can get one of those fabulous newsletters that come into your inbox. And yeah, go and check out oh, what’s your other one as well? Your Oh, yes,

Jenn Donovan

thank you, you’re much better at this. And may goodness may have framed myself me. So my online platform is spend with us.com.au come over there and you can support over 1600 small rural and regional businesses, you know, great place to buy presents or Christmas is coming up or staff presence or something like that. Yeah, I’m sure everyone would really appreciate that. And the Facebook group is called spin with us buy from Bush business. So if you just search that in Facebook, you will come across us for sure. Amazing.

Nicole Smith

I’m gonna put all those links in the show notes as well. So you again took the words out of my mouth, Christmas is not that far away. And I have some fabulous humans, friends that own product based businesses. And when you buy from a small business, there is just something so rewarding from your side. But also you’re supporting someone that’s sitting there hand making or creating or whatever it might be so that way, don’t do that.

Jenn Donovan

Yeah, I’m certainly ditch the Westfield’s my lad to say that,

Nicole Smith

yeah, why not? Now I try my very best to do that as well. And the problem is, there’s just so many people out there. It’s like, Yes, got a you know, like, limit the spending. But anyway, another topic Christmas, my birthday is in November.

I’ve got my wish list in Click Upalready. So watch this space. Well, thank you so much for sharing all your fabulous wisdom with us today. And I’m very excited to jump back in and focus in on my marketing. I know that especially growing my fabulous humans on my list as well my Newsletter Lists so yeah, thank you so much.

Jenn Donovan

My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

Nicole Smith

You’re very welcome. Well, thank you everybody who is listening out there today. I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day and enjoy creating Space and time freedom by now. Well, there we go. Thank you so much for joining me today. It’s been such a pleasure having you on board. Have we connected on social jazz? If not, please come on over. Say hi, I’m on all the platforms at the artisan solutions. So I’d really look forward to seeing you over there. And if you enjoy today’s episode, don’t forget to tag me and I’d love it if you could leave a review. And of course, share this with others so others can come and join us next time. All right, that everyone have a fabulous rest of the week and until next time, see you then.